Announcer 0:00
From Los Angeles. This is the Echelon Radio Network.

Brian Hemsworth 0:13
Hey everybody. It’s Brian Hemsworth. I am here with the Echelon radio podcast, and today we have a special guest who has come in to see us. Tom Drucker, Tom, welcome.

Tom Drucker 0:23
Thank you, Brian, good to be here.

Brian Hemsworth 0:25
Oh. We’re really glad you’re here. Let’s dive right into some of you’re, you’re a busy guy. You’ve got your hands in a lot of things. Let’s dive into a couple of these areas so we can get some understanding of what you do during most of your daytime hours, and I know there’s a couple. So let’s take these sort of in the order. I’m going to take them in the order of how I know you, because some of these are rather new to me, but you’ve been a business consultant, and I know you, you come at business consulting from a very scientific place. Can you tell us how you got into it and where you are with that kind of consulting now.

Tom Drucker 1:06
Sure. Well, my first career was clinical psychology, and I practiced and then a mentor said I should switch my PhD studies to the business school at UCLA, the Anderson School. And I did that. So I learned how to help many, many people by designing programs and doing coaching and helping to actually be a coach for their culture. Because I believe corporate cultures should be and can be a competitive advantage. And so after my amazing work for the Chairman of Xerox, I started a consulting firm and consultants in corporate innovation, and we work with leaders, their teams and individuals to help them be more productive with less stress, and in the process, make more money.

Brian Hemsworth 1:58
Gotcha. So just so we have a little bit of of bearings of of this. You’re in Southern California.

Tom Drucker 2:06
Yes.

Brian Hemsworth 2:06
Are most of your clients here? Are they all over the place?

Tom Drucker 2:10
all over the place, including in Europe. And I’ve worked with people in Asia too. Because of zoom, I don’t have to get on an airplane anymore,

Brian Hemsworth 2:19
Nice.

Speaker 1 2:20
unless I’m having a vacation. And the thing about working remotely, obviously, being in person is preferable. But, you know, you can get a lot done with Zoom or teams, and I find it very effective. So one of my clients is in Chicago, and we talk every couple of weeks, and I’ve helped him become more proactive and less reactive as a leader by basically helping him be calm when something happens by breathing very important breath work really helps the mind and the body become more centered, and then he can make informed decisions rather than reacting out of fear.

Brian Hemsworth 3:06
So Tom, are most of your clients when you’re working with a business? Are most of the clients going to be sort of at that C suite or entrepreneurial level, pretty high up at the company?

Speaker 1 3:17
Well, yes. And so I do work with owners and leaders, but I also work with individuals who may be stalled in their career want to change careers. I help people do that, and I help people find what gives their work meaning, and so they can approach work with passion, because I believe work is a form of creative self expression, and if it isn’t, there needs to be some alteration in the way that person is interacting with their work environment, as we spend most of our time at work. And so I believe that work needs to really give an individual that deep sense of satisfaction, that they’re doing something meaningful, and that their values match the values of the organization that they’re working.

Brian Hemsworth 4:04
Gotcha. Gotcha. Now, a short while ago, I heard you discussing something I had not heard of before, and you referred to it as tandem coaching.

Tom Drucker 4:17
Yes.

Brian Hemsworth 4:18
Can you explain to us a little bit of what tandem coaching is, and maybe if you have an example of that in action?

Speaker 1 4:25
So one of my partners is really smart, talented coach named Mark Rothman. He was a CEO of a couple of nonprofits, and then developed a coaching practice, and we partnered. And what I found was, when he and I are working with a client or a team, one of the things that happens is we can kind of amplify each other’s ideas and make sure that the client is really able to take action on their insights. Because sometimes you know when a new idea comes into a person’s consciousness, it takes them a while to integrate it. So with two of us, one of us is listening, the other speaking, and we can really make sure that the client is internalizing it. So I’ll tell you about an example helping a client sell their company and his partners, typically for years, were very negative. Anytime he would bring up an idea, they would kind of dump on it. And so what we helped him learn to do was to stand up for his ideas and not be cowed by their negativity. And so he’s able, was able, and is able now to guide the company towards a sale to a private equity firm. And he will be able to do what he likes to do, which is to help bring in business, but also retire at some point, because he’s very active in other activities. He’s on boards, philanthropic boards, university, excuse me, and there’s a kind of, again, a satisfaction, that his life has meaning and purpose and he can avoid doing the things that gave him frustration and angst.

Brian Hemsworth 6:20
So when you are doing this kind of consulting, whether it’s the tandem consulting or just you with individuals or or businesses, do you have sort of a target that you’re looking at? Are there certain people that are more appropriate to work with you? Is it a, is it kind of a wide swath that you’re able to work with?

Speaker 1 6:42
I mean, you know, because I have some decades of experience, I’ve worked with people from every level in an organization, individual contributors, up to owners, and I find that everyone, of course, is unique. And so the first thing I do is really listen and understand where they are in their career cycle, what their passions are, what their frustrations are. And then we go to work. I never have sales calls. I just meet people. We have confidential, complimentary conversations to get to know each other, trust each other. And what I do is I just go to work, because that way they experience what my value can be to them, rather than hear about it. It’s like you know the difference between reading about riding a bike and actually riding a bike, as you know

Brian Hemsworth 7:36
and is your clientele, Is it primarily bigger companies, smaller companies, or everything?

Speaker 1 7:44
Everyting. So one of my clients, VCA, a chain of veterinary hospitals. They were purchased by the Mars family. Had a lot of money to grow, and they didn’t have a lot of leaders who could manage clusters of hospitals. So we had to design a leadership training program for the top 450 leaders, 70% of them are women, I was proud to say. And we designed a program. I had an internal team, and it was the most successful leadership training program right out of their shoe that I’ve ever done. And it was very satisfying. And we’re turning out these leaders, and they’re doing really well. Oh, that’s awesome. And then, you know, for smaller companies, it’s not quite so elaborate, but I have trained literally 1000s of leaders and here and abroad now with Zoom, but I love being in person. It’s nothing like being in the room with people, but sometimes that’s not easy. So yeah, I love what I do. I’m passionate about helping people find meaning and purpose in their work. I

Brian Hemsworth 8:48
actually found I’m a testament. I found VCA during covid. It was actually very hard to get to vets, and I had an issue with a with one of my pets, and it ended for a challenging situation. It ended up being a very good experience. And so whatever you did and are doing is working for them. I want to put you on the spot here for just a second. So you’ve worked with 1000s of leaders. Are there one or two things that tend to be pretty common that you can share with us, issues that that that you see a lot of, that maybe we fall into as well?

Speaker 1 9:32
I think so. I think one of the things is very often leaders don’t have the complete lexicon or language to express the empathy that’s so important to business, and sometimes they’re not authentic. So I think authenticity, being yourself, having the vocabulary I give leaders, you know, tons of words and phrases that help increase their emotional intelligence, because most people are very. Smart IQ wise, but not everyone has been trained in EQ or emotional intelligence, and I find that that is as important today as it has ever been in business. EQ is really important emotional intelligence. Most people have very high IQs in business. You know, they’re experts at whatever they’ve been doing, but they may not have the emotional intelligence to create empathy and build trust. I believe trust is the foundation of accomplishing anything in life or in business, and I teach leaders and individuals to listen, be empathic, be kind, and to draw people out, because as people know, there’s much more that connects people than divides people, and it’s important that people at every level in an organization learn to use themselves as agents of empathy and kindness.

Brian Hemsworth 9:32
So two of the things that I hear when you speak and please correct me if I’m wrong, but I hear sort of the emotional and and psychological aspect. And parallel to that is communication.

Tom Drucker 10:54
critical.

Brian Hemsworth 11:19
Does that sound like to I mean,

Speaker 1 11:20
communication is sort of the the watchword of business. It’s it’s everything, because you may have good ideas, but if you can’t communicate and collaborate, nobody does anything alone. We all work with people.

Brian Hemsworth 11:36
So if I was to ask you to editorialize for just a moment in in in today’s world where we have access to so much communication technology, and we have our cell phones, we can text, we can call, we can email, as you said earlier, we might use teams and zoom. I know that can help us be more effective and and more successful in certain ways. Is there a downside to all of that, to all of the electronic communication?

Speaker 1 12:10
Well the downside is sometimes people have so many meetings or so many calls or emails that interrupt them that it’s very hard for them to concentrate and get world work done. And so I always suggest that people live out of their calendars. You know, if they have to do lists, which we all do, you translate that to the calendar so you block out time. And it’s really important for people to have time to think and reflect and to schedule their work so that they’re listening to their body. Some people are better in the morning, some people are better in the afternoon, and you need to take breaks. You know, it’s been particularly since the pandemic. We’re all looking at our screens and our phones, computer screens, and can get really tiring, so we need to stand up, we need to breathe. We need to, you know, take breaks so that we re energize ourselves. And people at every level in the organization need to do that, and particularly senior managers, because often they really are getting a lot of bombardment from their peers, from their boss and from their people. So I was just talking to a fellow the other day who runs a software development organization within an organization, and he was having trouble actually finding time to do His own work, be strategic, rather than, you know, just deal with the fires. And so we work together to carve out time for that sort of like office hours. And sometimes, you know, I know we’ve both been teachers, and it’s important that you have time to plan your lessons and sit quietly and think about what you’re doing, and then you’re able to talk to people you know when they need your help.

Brian Hemsworth 14:08
I’ve heard that described sometimes as the difference between working at your work versus working on your work, yes, and it sounds like that’s a pretty common thing.

Speaker 1 14:21
Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, we all fall into that, yeah, you know, I have to manage my own time, my own calendar. I’m just like everybody else,

Brian Hemsworth 14:31
and it is really hard. It’s definitely a behavioral change to not always pick up the phone when you hear that beep to not always check your email the minute you sit down at the computer and that you allow yourself those times.

Speaker 1 14:48
Yeah. And the other thing is, recently, as I mentioned to you when we were talking before this, that I’ve become an investment banker adding to my coaching and consulting and I help the family owned and privately held companies sell, be sold, so they get the value of their life’s work. And that’s really satisfying. I’m working with a couple of research scientists who want to sell a company because they want to be researchers and not business operators and owners. So we’ll help them get generational wealth and then they can continue on their own research path.

Brian Hemsworth 15:28
Tom tell me about the connection between your consulting business and how that allowed you to move into investment banking as one of your service offerings.

Tom Drucker 15:39
Sure. Well, when I reported to the chairman of Xerox, I had the opportunity to participate in many acquisitions, and I would go in and, you know, assess the leadership team and their processes and procedures, because that’s really what a company is. It’s people, it’s culture, it’s processes and procedures, and, you know how they serve their customers and their quality. And so I got pretty good at that. And so when I was approached by this company headquartered in Pasadena called Janas, they’re all over the United States and elsewhere in the world, it’s really just the same skill set. So I’m helping a couple of really top tier scientists sell their business so they can continue to do research, and I’m working on a couple of other potential clients, and then part of other teams. And we’re in aerospace, and we’re in agriculture, a lot of farms now, you know, the land is so valuable they want to build condos, yeah? And so we’re helping to help farmers capitalize on their

Brian Hemsworth 16:49
wealth. Gotcha. Gotcha. How interesting.

Speaker 1 16:53
So it’s the same skill set, basically understanding people Yeah, and assessing their strengths and weaknesses, and making sure that when we find, usually, a private equity firm, because they’re doing a lot of purchasing of companies these days, that it’s a good fit that the company will be continued to the company will continue to be managed well and maximize the value of what was sold.

Brian Hemsworth 17:17
Gotcha. So let’s move away from business just a little bit. I want to, I want to backtrack. You mentioned your PhD studies and the shift that you did in this. The shift was to Anderson School at UCLA. Where did you do undergrad?

Tom Drucker 17:34
UCLA.

Brian Hemsworth 17:35
At UCLA?

Tom Drucker 17:35
I have three degrees. I have a bachelor’s, a master’s in clinical psychology,

Brian Hemsworth 17:39
all from UCLA?

Tom Drucker 17:40
all from UCLA,

Brian Hemsworth 17:40
so you’re a Bruin through and through.

Tom Drucker 17:41
I’m a Bruin, but I taught at SC so

Brian Hemsworth 17:44
oh my goodness,

Tom Drucker 17:44
for a while I had tickets on both sides.

Brian Hemsworth 17:49
Where are you from originally ?

Tom Drucker 17:50
here.

Brian Hemsworth 17:51
here?

Tom Drucker 17:51
born and raised in LA

Brian Hemsworth 17:52
Where abouts?

Tom Drucker 17:53
I live in Marina Del Rey now. When I left high school, I moved to the beach.

Brian Hemsworth 18:00
So where was high school?

Tom Drucker 18:02
Beverly Hills High School.

Brian Hemsworth 18:03
So you were a little bit inland, and you moved to the beach.

Speaker 1 18:06
Moved to the beach right after high school, and circumstances improved. My first house was right off Speedway and Avenue 30, right by the Venice fishing gear. And then for the last few decades, we have a large condo on the beach in what’s called the peninsula, and it’s just a great privilege to live on the beach.

Brian Hemsworth 18:29
So you’re you’re a born and raised, you’re a true local.

Speaker 1 18:32
Yeah. I am, and I love it. The only time I wasn’t living here is when I was in Connecticut working for the Chairman of Xerox

Brian Hemsworth 18:40
Gotcha. So Tom tell us a little bit about when you’re not working, when you’re not consulting with somebody, when you’re not helping them with their their life or their business. What do you like to do?

Speaker 1 18:51
Well, my wife and I love to travel. So every year we take at least one, maybe two trips. We’re about to go to South America, starting in Buenos Aires and going around the tip and ending up in Santiago and seeing a lot of penguins. And then about five months ago, we had a really amazing time in Peru. We went on the Amazon. We were told, if you want to see the Amazon, as they say, up close and personal, go in from the Peruvian side because it’s more accessible. So we were on this amazing purpose built boat that had 20 other people, actually 18 other people, besides Marcia and myself. And they take you on these high powered motorboats into the tributaries to see flora, fauna, meet people. It was just amazing. And then we went to the mountains Cusco and Machu Picchu. That was just awesome.

Brian Hemsworth 19:48
Eat any of those coca leaves on the way up to Machu Picchu?

Speaker 1 19:51
Yeah,but they didn’t really seem to do much. I’m not much for altering my consciousness, except through meditation and breathing. Got. Gotcha.

Brian Hemsworth 20:00
Gotcha. So let’s play a little game of travel. What is someplace you have traveled to that you have no desire to go back to?

Speaker 1 20:14
Gosh, that’s hard because we have been a lot of places, or would I not want to go back to? I can’t think of any place I wouldn’t want to go back to if I had the, you know, the time or the opportunity. Well, let’s see Norway. We went to fabulous cruise up in Norway, and I’m not sure I would need to do that again.

Brian Hemsworth 20:38
Okay.

Tom Drucker 20:39
The people were great. The weather was great, and it was amazing to see the natural beauty of that country, and the people were wonderful. But you know, sort of this, the phrase goes, once you’ve got the message, you can hang up the phone. So I might not need to go back to Norway.

Brian Hemsworth 20:55
We missed a trip during covid that we had to cancel. We had a a young lady from Norway who was a foreign exchange student that lived with us, and we had said we wanted to go visit her. When she was back, she was doing advanced studies. Covid Shut that down. We haven’t been able to rebook it yet. She’s moved a couple times, but we’re still hoping to get back there.

Speaker 1 21:19
That’s a beautiful country and wonderful people as you know. So I hope that you do

Brian Hemsworth 21:24
so all the places you’ve been, if if you could only return to one of them, which one would you like to go back to?

Speaker 1 21:34
Well, we spent a lot of time in Paris, Brian, we usually go for two or three weeks rent an apartment, and sometimes we’ve been able to rent the same place. So it’s like people know us, and that’s just wonderful. We haven’t been in a while, and we’re hoping to go back soon, but, you know, we’ve said, Well, you know, let’s go to places we haven’t been. And so we’re excited about the upcoming trip to South America.

Brian Hemsworth 22:03
For me, travel is a lot like restaurants. I have the ones that I really want to go back to, but I have others I really want to go try.

Tom Drucker 22:11
yeah.

Brian Hemsworth 22:11
and I found I over my life, I’ve kind of bounced between. Sometimes I just have that urge to go back somewhere, and sometimes it’s, Hey, let’s go new, do new and fresh.

Tom Drucker 22:21
That’s right, yeah.

Brian Hemsworth 22:22
did you watch much of the Olympics in Paris?

Speaker 1 22:24
I did. We loved it, and we had friends there, and we were able to talk to them about what it was like to be in the stadiums or on the streets. And yeah, I think it’s just a remarkable opportunity to see excellence in action.

Brian Hemsworth 22:42
I think Paris. I think Paris did a fabulous job. I think they had a couple challenges. I think they overcame them. But for anybody who’s been to Paris, I think they created a wonderful postcard for the world to see,

Tom Drucker 22:59
yeah, and we’re excited about it coming to LA in four years.

Brian Hemsworth 23:02
Yeah. they’re already, they’re announcing a lot of the venues. They’re lining up volunteers for it. So it’ll be a little bit different, a little bit different than Paris. Paris did a great job of getting everybody to focus. I mean, they literally had events in the shadow of the Eiffel Tower.

Tom Drucker 23:19
Yeah, volleyball, yeah, it’s great.

Brian Hemsworth 23:22
And we’re gonna, we’re gonna spread it out a little bit more in Southern California, but I remember the 84 Olympics and getting to some of the events, and even to this day, many years later, it was very memorable.

Speaker 1 23:34
Yeah, my wife is a writer and a theater producer. She was asked to write an essay for the official program.

Brian Hemsworth 23:40
Oh, wow.

Tom Drucker 23:41
So we got invited to a lot of events, the opening, the closing, and it was just thrilling. And I know that Karen Bass has said, you know, we’re going to shut down a lot of the cars, and people are going to take, you know, public transit, which is great. So I think LA will really be a fabulous venue, and we have these new fabulous arenas.

Brian Hemsworth 24:06
Oh, yeah.

Tom Drucker 24:07
And I think that’s going to showcase really well for the world.

Brian Hemsworth 24:10
They’re going to put a swimming pool in SoFi stadium.

Tom Drucker 24:14
Oh, really, I didn’t know.

Brian Hemsworth 24:15
They’re they’re going to be able to have about 50,000 people

Tom Drucker 24:19
watching, right?

Brian Hemsworth 24:20
They’re putting a i, I thought it was a mistake and and it isn’t. So they’re going to do some very cool stuff. I want to ask you, let’s, let’s ask one more before we before we run out of time. So I asked you about places maybe you wouldn’t necessarily want or need to go back to, someplace you’d like to go back to. Where is somewhere that you haven’t been that you really want to get to?

Speaker 1 24:46
Well, I was in Japan a while ago. Haven’t been back for over 20 years, and I really like to get back to Japan. We have also not been to Singapore, and I want to go there. And so we’re looking at 2025, to do a trip over there, probably a cruise with some land, you know, options. I just think it’s a fascinating culture. I’ve worked a lot in China for clients. I really like that part of the world. I love the people, love the food, and so we’re looking to go to Japan in 2025.

Brian Hemsworth 25:30
Oh excellent, excellent. Well, Tom, listen, thanks so much for coming in. Thanks for sharing some of your professional life and a little bit of your personal life with us. Really appreciate it, and I think we’ve learned a fair amount here.

Tom Drucker 25:41
Well thanks, Brian, it was a pleasure.

Announcer 25:56
Presented by Echelon business development. More than just networking. Way more.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai