Jerri Hemsworth, CEO of Newman Grace Marketing, interviews real estate attorney Jennifer Felten, Founder of RELAW. Jennifer shares her story of becoming an attorney after being a real estate escrow officer. How did she balance law school and motherhood? What has she learned by running her own firm? Listen to how Jennifer got her start.
How She Got Her Start
How She Got Her Start is a podcast devoted to the stories of women business owners and women executives. Listening to their stories, their challenges and their successes is meant to inspire other women while they maneuver the world of business. Whether they are attorneys, accountants, marketing and public relation execs, or IT specialists, every woman has a unique journey with shared threads of commonality. Hearing how we are a community of common goals and dreams hopefully inspires those on the journey with us and those coming after us.
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And now from the Echelon Studios in Los Angeles, California. It’s the How She Got Her Start podcast. So let’s all get started with your host Jerri Hemsworth.
Jerri Hemsworth 0:15
Hi there, welcome to how she got her start. This is Jerri Hemsworth. And I’m sitting here today with Jennifer Felton with RELAW. How’re you doing?
Jennifer Felten 0:25
Jerri Hemsworth 0:26
Good. So cool. I’m so excited to have you here because How She Got Her Start is been a dream of mine to talk with women executives, and women business owners about their journey. We all have something to share, because all of our stories are so unique. And your story is pretty cool. And I love the uniqueness of your story. Thanks. So let’s start a little bit first, a short bit, what is RELAW? What is RELAW about and what do you do?
Jennifer Felten 0:56
Yep. So RELAW is a law firm. We focus on representing businesses in the real estate industry. So escrow companies, title companies, real estate brokers, real estate developers, the people who make real estate, their business, we make our business because of the unique regulations that affect that industry. You really need a specialist who can understand and guide you because our advice is not what you would get for normal business often, because there’s rules and regulations that specifically impact the industry. So we’re really that advocate for the industry and able to guide people to manage risk.
Jerri Hemsworth 1:34
Now, where did you go to law school?
Jennifer Felten 1:36
I went to Southwestern.
Jerri Hemsworth 1:38
Jennifer Felten 1:38
in Los Angeles
Jerri Hemsworth 1:39
What did you intend to go into real estate law at? Well, I know that hang on. Listener. We’re back backtracking a little bit first, because I do know the answer to this. Let’s back up even more. Where were you born and raised?
Jennifer Felten 1:52
I was born in Southern California. So I was born at Queen of the Valley in West Covina. And then when I went to high school, we moved to Glendale, and then I went to UCLA right out of high school. I got pregnant…
Jerri Hemsworth 2:07
Jennifer Felten 2:08
…right out of high school.
Jerri Hemsworth 2:09
Jennifer Felten 2:09
I literally got pregnant
Jerri Hemsworth 2:11
Jennifer Felten 2:11
in summer school before school even started at UCLA. Okay, so I dropped out. I moved out to Thousand Oaks. That’s where my first husband lived. And I had to get a job and figure out what to do with myself and raise a family and you know, total shift in mindset, you know
Jerri Hemsworth 2:32
had did you have intentions on ever going to law school?
Jennifer Felten 2:36
I did not
Jerri Hemsworth 2:37
what was sort of your dream as a kid when you’re What did you want to do?
Jennifer Felten 2:40
I was a psycho bio major.
Jerri Hemsworth 2:42
A psycho bio major.
Jennifer Felten 2:46
I wanted to be a psychiatrist.
Jerri Hemsworth 2:47
Jennifer Felten 2:48
right. So that was my, when I went off to UCLA. That was I was I was pre med psycho Bio Major. Oh my god. Yep. And like I said, that first quarter, I finished the first quarter.
Jerri Hemsworth 2:48
Jennifer Felten 2:54
and dropped out
Jerri Hemsworth 3:00
Left turn. Big left turn.
Jennifer Felten 3:02
Jerri Hemsworth 3:03
And you had a daughter?
Jennifer Felten 3:04
I did? Yeah. So she’s now 30. But at the time, I had to get a job, right, I had to grow up really quickly. And my first husband’s sister was in real estate. She was a sales rep for a title company.
Jerri Hemsworth 3:21
Jennifer Felten 3:21
And so she,
Jerri Hemsworth 3:22
Did you even know what a title company was?
Jennifer Felten 3:24
I didn’t know what title was. I didn’t know anything about real estate, right? I just needed a job. And she got me an interview, the company she was with, and they hired me to do what they call customer service. So in the real estate industry at title companies, they support the real estate agents. And they provide them information about properties and they provide labels so that they can send out postcards at the time, right like things are a lot done more technology wise today, but we did labels right. So it was called farming.
Jerri Hemsworth 3:57
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer Felten 3:58
Right. So I did farms that was my first my role and running messengers here, there and everywhere to pick up this package and drop these documents here and there and everywhere.
Jerri Hemsworth 4:09
. Now, was it fairly flexible? You were a young mom?
Jennifer Felten 4:12
No, it was a full time regular hours job.
Jerri Hemsworth 4:15
Jennifer Felten 4:15
Barely above minimum wage. Honestly, it was really entry level. And that’s really where I found my passion for real estate. I really did enjoy what I was doing and learning and I saw lots of big numbers.
Jerri Hemsworth 4:30
You’re like, Whoa, that’s a lot of money.
Jennifer Felten 4:32
And also, you know that the company I was at also had escrow in the office.
Jerri Hemsworth 4:38
Jennifer Felten 4:38
And so they were all women, which they almost are still today, right? Most escrow people are women.
Jerri Hemsworth 4:44
You know, they really are
Jennifer Felten 4:45
Jerri Hemsworth 4:45
Jennifer Felten 4:46
and well women multitask better than men do.
Jerri Hemsworth 4:50
Yeah, it’s a biological thing.
Jennifer Felten 4:51
And escrow requires a ton of multitasking. But so they also had nice cars and nice jewelry and you know, things that I wanted and I was like, okay, so how do I get over there?
Jerri Hemsworth 5:03
Jennifer Felten 5:04
Jerri Hemsworth 5:05
Enough. Enough farming
Jennifer Felten 5:06
Jerri Hemsworth 5:07
Jennifer Felten 5:07
You know, I learned about I know how to I can read a chain of title I understand how documents work I learned that piece of the industry, but I also then learn the transactional, doing deals, and and you know real estate on that end is apprentice work, right. You don’t go to college and get a degree
Jerri Hemsworth 5:25
They don’t teach that
Jennifer Felten 5:25
in escrow, right? No, there’s no school that has an escrow degree. Right,
Jerri Hemsworth 5:31
we’ll have to see about that.
Jennifer Felten 5:32
It’s something I actually I teach for a company that teaches escrow people because there’s no resources, right? And so it is, it’s like being a plumber or any other sort of trade
Jerri Hemsworth 5:44
It’s a trade
Jennifer Felten 5:44
where you have to work at it and learn from other people. And hopefully you learn from someone who does it right. Yes, you know, so
Jerri Hemsworth 5:52
Jennifer Felten 5:52
I joke that I went to the Mary Patterson School of Escrow because that was my first escrow officer, right. And that’s who you learn from?
Jerri Hemsworth 5:59
Jennifer Felten 6:00
And I loved it. And again, it just I kept, like, how to kind of get more data? How can I get more information? Right?
Jerri Hemsworth 6:07
Jennifer Felten 6:07
And I got good at it. And I enjoyed it. And so over time, I, I. I was, you know, going up the ranks in that. But there really was a glass ceiling in the industry. And even today, the title companies are almost all male, managed and run. My best case scenario was maybe being the manager of an escrow office. And…
Jerri Hemsworth 6:34
but you wanted more than just being a manager?
Jennifer Felten 6:36
Oh, yeah. Well, and I could make more money as an escrow officer than an escrow manager, because it’s commission driven, right. So I was making good money. But one, it’s a lot of work and very little respect. Right? It’s, it’s a hard job. And so I did want more. And that’s where I was like, Okay, where’s where do I go? How do I,
Jerri Hemsworth 6:58
Jennifer Felten 6:59
how do I take this real estate, passion and desire and take it, you know, turn it up a notch or, but now understand, I don’t even have a undergraduate degree.
Jerri Hemsworth 7:08
That’s right, this That’s right. That’s right. Right. You You didn’t finish it up?
Jennifer Felten 7:12
No. I dropped out my first quarter.
Jerri Hemsworth 7:14
Your daughter, right?
Jennifer Felten 7:15
Yes. So I first had to go back and get my undergraduate degree. So I did that while I was still working in escrow.
Jerri Hemsworth 7:23
Where do you go back to?
Jennifer Felten 7:24
I went to back to UCLA.
Jerri Hemsworth 7:25
Jennifer Felten 7:25
Jerri Hemsworth 7:25
Jennifer Felten 7:26
So I had gone in, you know, I was a high achiever kid. So I had gone in as a sophomore, when I went to UCLA, and I had taken classes and you know, kept up and kept my grades so that I will still admitable and all of that. So I went back and finished in three years.
Jerri Hemsworth 7:44
Jennifer Felten 7:45
And at the at that time I did mobile notaries. So I actually started a mobile notary business. So I did that to pay my bills.
Jerri Hemsworth 7:53
Jennifer Felten 7:53
When I went back and finished my undergrad because UCLA I had to go during the day.
Jerri Hemsworth 7:56
Yeah, but that’s pretty brilliant to be a notary and to be able to be flexible,
Jennifer Felten 8:02
right? Well, it was you had to figure it out, right? Like, I want to get my degree I need to pay the bills. I have a child and right and I’m I’m divorced at this point, right.
Jerri Hemsworth 8:09
Jennifer Felten 8:09
So there was no,…
Jerri Hemsworth 8:11
just you and her?
Jennifer Felten 8:12
Right. So we were, you know, figuring it out. So I went back and did that. And then you know, I did all that all that hard work, right, you know, and and then the jobs I could get with my poli sci degree were way less money than what I was making as an escrow officer, right? Because escrow was commission based, so I was making good money. I’m getting offers for $40,000 a year jobs. I’m like, I went back to school for this.
Jerri Hemsworth 8:41
Yeah. Oh, back the truck up.
Jennifer Felten 8:43
Wait a sec.
Jerri Hemsworth 8:44
Jennifer Felten 8:45
So I’m back in escrow. Right. And so that’s when I was like, Okay, I have to go to law school, I have to take it to that level where I can run a business and and control my world.
Jerri Hemsworth 8:56
But now did you have sights on owning your own law firm? Or did you think okay, I can, I can stay in escrow and, and manipulate in that universe, in that fishbowl?
Jennifer Felten 9:09
I wanted to, I wanted to own my own company. I’m not that kind of, I’m not a good employee. I’m not, I have really strong opinions, and I want to do things my way. And I think I’m right, right. I mean,I have all those, you know, personality traits,
Jerri Hemsworth 9:28
that’s because we are.
Jennifer Felten 9:30
and so I’m not a good employee, I push back and I and so it’s not easy for someone to have me as their employee anymore than it is easy for me to be an employee. So I knew I wanted to build my own thing. i, what, what really is today, That wasn’t envisioned and right but the concept of going out on my own and building something was there. How, wasn’t quite. I knew I want to do real estate right? I I’d built a no knowledge base and an interest.
Jerri Hemsworth 10:02
Did you do much research into the real estate? legal realm?
Jennifer Felten 10:06
No, not really honestly,
Jerri Hemsworth 10:08
just going I’m, this is what I’m doing.
Jennifer Felten 10:10
I’m doing this right.
Jerri Hemsworth 10:12
Jennifer Felten 10:13
I mean, I knew that there was I knew I could start my own firm, right, I could build something. Again, really, there was still a lot of gray space in what it was going to be and how it is today. But but it was the the beginnings were there, right, the ideas and the dream. And, and, and having that target gave me the motivation to do the things that I had to do to get there. Because I worked full time and went to law school at night, and had to make that work.
Jerri Hemsworth 10:47
So you were a notary by day, you have your daughter and you’re going to law school at night?
Jennifer Felten 10:51
when I went to law school, I was actually working as an escrow officer.
Jerri Hemsworth 10:54
Jennifer Felten 10:55
So and things like so we live in Thousand Oaks, which is depending on traffic an hour to an hour and a half from Southwestern. So I was working at a company in Westlake Village out by us, I had to go change, I had to go work for an escrow company in Beverly Hills, because I couldn’t get to law school. I couldn’t get to class on time,
Jerri Hemsworth 11:17
Jennifer Felten 11:17
driving out. So I drive in the morning to Beverly Hills so that I could then get to classes at night.
Jerri Hemsworth 11:23
So you really didn’t see your daughter a lot
Jennifer Felten 11:25
It was challenging several years. And she’s in, you know, middle school, right? And all that when all this is going on. Sure. So I am blessed. My my first husband was a very good father. We weren’t a great couple. But he was and he was very involved. So she wasn’t, you know, just left.
she was with her dad.
Jerri Hemsworth 11:45
I was gonna ask you what are your support system was during all of that?
Jennifer Felten 11:48
He was really good dad. That’s fantastic. And he still is he he’s still very involved with her. And you know, we have grandkids now.
Jerri Hemsworth 11:55
So yeah, she’s got little ones.
Jennifer Felten 11:57
She has three.
Jerri Hemsworth 11:58
Oh, my gosh.
Jennifer Felten 11:59
Jerri Hemsworth 11:59
That blows me away.
Jennifer Felten 12:01
but so I knew I had I had the images, right. But I had to put, it was like a puzzle piece. Right. And maybe I had the edge. Yeah, it had like border, right. But now we’ve had to put the pieces in place, right. And even that took time. I mean, I didn’t go out on my own. The day I got my law degree. Law school does not teach you how to be a lawyer or run a law firm,
Jerri Hemsworth 12:25
very few degrees do
Jennifer Felten 12:27
Law, I would say in particular, is very lacking on detail.
Jerri Hemsworth 12:33
It’s all theory and book and
Jennifer Felten 12:36
Theory and thinking. How to think, which is an amazing skill, right? A good lawyer who has learned how to problem solve is invaluable whether they work as a lawyer or not. Right, right. So in that regard, it was extremely valuable. I wouldn’t change it for the world. But I was in no way ready to practice on my own or run a business on my own. It didn’t give me any of those skills. Yeah. So I worked for another firm for several years.
Jerri Hemsworth 13:01
What kind of firm was that? Was it in real estate?
Jennifer Felten 13:03
It was. Tthey did subdivision? Oh, work interesting. So forming homeowners associations. So and I had done subdivision escrows when I was an escrow officer, so I knew the documents, I had baselines in the industry. The lawyer, the firm I went to work for was a company I had done business with as an escrow officer. And then again, I took a pay cut to become a lawyer. I was making more commissions as an escrow officer than I did when I got a job. And did you had you put away savings or anything? No, I borrowed a lot. Yeah. There’s that thing called plastic. And when we have student loans, right, when you’re going to law school, I borrowed $100,000 to go to law school. Yes. Right. To Yeah, it was it was a big commitment. We really did take big risks free. them. I mean, obviously, they’ve paid off, but yeah, it was a huge risk. People I get this all the time. Did you pass the bar on the first time? It was like, was there an option? Yeah, right. Like I spent, I thought $1,000 I, everybody. All my time and effort in this. I’m not going to pass?
Jerri Hemsworth 14:13
No, that’s truly it’s not an option.
Jennifer Felten 14:16
No, it wasn’t an option to not pass. Right.
Jerri Hemsworth 14:19
Right. Failure is not an option. Right.
Jennifer Felten 14:21
Jerri Hemsworth 14:22
Jennifer Felten 14:22
Yeah. So I did that. And then I went in as a transactional lawyer I had no actually never wanted to litigate that wasn’t I didn’t go in it like I didn’t plan on being Perry Mason or
Jerri Hemsworth 14:35
didn’t want to fight. Not gonna fight
Jennifer Felten 14:37
No, I really went in with that transactional mindset. Well, in the timing is now all of a sudden the real estate market crashes, right? Oh, god, ’07, ’08. In our firm, I all of a sudden I was a litigator because all of our projects were now in litigation. And they literally was like, Okay, you get to go to court. And it was like, What do you mean I get to go to court like. No,you get to go to court and all of a sudden I had to learn and no one else in the firm did it. So I literally learned how to litigate.
Jerri Hemsworth 14:37
Why, why did they pick you?
Jennifer Felten 15:08
I? Cuz I would do it. Because I didn’t say no.
Jerri Hemsworth 15:13
Give it to Jen,. She can do this.
Jennifer Felten 15:14
you know, and I would, and I am that type of I’ll try things right. I’m not afraid to try things. And so we figured it out. And we did well, I mean, we we figured it out. Did you like it though? I don’t love litigating. It’s not my personality. For all that I’m, like I said, very strong. I actually am all about compromise. That really is my, like, see that new, my problem solving is all about, like, our mission statement has mitigate in the word, right? Like we so you know, people will call and be like, I need a bulldog. And I’m like, well, here’s some five other attorneys to talk to. We’re not bulldogs, that is not our mindset. If you want to solve this problem for the least cost and less pain, that’s who that’s where we’re at. That’s what so I don’t love litigating from that perspective, at least litigating with attorneys who are respectful and, and reasonable and kind of when you go at it that way, often, even people who aren’t in their traditional style will will come that way. Right? You kind of drag them into
Jerri Hemsworth 16:17
Almost that influence of…
Jennifer Felten 16:19
Correct. They can’t be mean, when you’re being so nice.
Jerri Hemsworth 16:23
Well, and I don’t know if you find this, Jen, because it’s almost like I kick into a different word. I use different words, to sort of, it’s a whole different source, if you will. Yeah. And, and that’s how I get the respect.
Jennifer Felten 16:38
It’s how, it’s, first you have to give it Yes. Right?
Jerri Hemsworth 16:47
Jennifer Felten 16:47
So always in our correspondence, and in dealing with the other side, there’s the respect and the appreciation, and how can we solve this problem? How can we get the best results for both of our clients? And when they know you’re coming at it from that point? They’re much more likely to come to you? Yes, they don’t. All right, you still get the pain in the butt, but you’re gonna get 90% of them, yes, to come to that place and work with them versus the nastiness. Litigation can be. And, you know, 60% of our practices litigation at this point. So but you’re not the litigator? I’m not, you’re not political. I am not the technician.
Jerri Hemsworth 17:28
So at what point did RELAW become a nugget in your head? You’re litigating at this firm. Subdivision specialty firm. And what point do you say, Okay, it’s time.
Jennifer Felten 17:47
I got pregnant. Again, amazingly, pregnancy has all this impact on my life right
Jerri Hemsworth 17:54
Left turn again.
Jennifer Felten 17:55
So Amanda’s 18. She goes off to college, right, my my oldest daughter, and I get pregnant. And I’m commuting to Beverly Hills to go work at this firm. And I’m working long hours and I had just gotten through getting her launched right off to college. And, you know, I was, it was an hour to an hour and a half commute each way every day. And things like if there was a soccer game at school, I’d have to leave at like noon to get to the game and then I’d have to work all night. And you know, there was a fire one day right? It took me like five hours to get home right there. It rains and the canyon gets closed. And then traffic’s right. So I was like, I’m not doing this again. Like she was a teenager, she had her own car. I could, it was functional. Yeah, I was like, I’m gonna have an infant. I am not going to be an hour and a half away from an infant and having to manage these things. Right. My husband was very successful. My second husband, yes, very successful professionally. We could have survived on his income.
Jerri Hemsworth 18:19
And what is he doing?
Jennifer Felten 19:04
Fred is a electrical engineer by education. So he has a electrical engineering degree from Purdue. And then he went to Pepperdine and got an MBA.
Jerri Hemsworth 19:15
Jennifer Felten 19:15
So he was a program manager for a company called AeroVironment. Okay, they make drones, okay. And so he was doing fine. He was making good money. We could have survived on one income. And we were at that point, we’re having a new kid. We’re like, Okay, I’m gonna I’ll just work at home. I’ll start my own thing just a project to see happen. Yeah, right. I can do it out of the house.
Jerri Hemsworth 19:38
We’ll take a project.
Jennifer Felten 19:39
A little bit of extra money, right? It’ll be fine. And so I did that. And my first client I got was Bank of America.
Jerri Hemsworth 19:49
Oh, nothing like starting small.
Jennifer Felten 19:52
Jerri Hemsworth 19:52
Oh, my gosh. How did that come to you? I
Jennifer Felten 19:56
mean, my ex husband worked at Bank of America.
Jerri Hemsworth 19:59
Bless his heart.
Jennifer Felten 20:01
I have a good relationship. Like I always say I’m happily divorced. Oh, we did. We co raised a child and he was very responsible. Again, we weren’t a great couple. But we really we still get a letter friend very well. Yeah. And he was working at the event. And this is when again, we’ve gone through this mortgage meltdown. So be evey had taken over countrywide. Yes. And countrywide didn’t know what underwriting was when it came to loans and property transaction. So they had a portfolio of properties that were distressed in a whole bunch of different ways, whether they had a title issue, they had legal description issues, they had loan issues, right, just the plethora, I mean, I literally, one of them was in South Carolina, and there had been a hurricane. And the island, the water level on the island had gone up like 10 feet. And literally when you did like Google Maps, the dot for the house is in the middle of the ocean,
Jerri Hemsworth 21:01
oh my God,
Jennifer Felten 21:02
but B of A still owned it. And they were still paying property taxes on it. But legally, once it’s so far away from the shore, it’s, it’s, it’s regulated differently. So we literally had to negotiate with the island to take title to get off a B of A’s books, so that they didn’t own this dot. Literally a dot, yeah, that they’re paying property taxes. Yeah. Right. Right. So things like that. So BofA if I had this portfolio, and so he just started hiring me to do this. And because I had done title and escrow, right, I, like most attorneys didn’t, didn’t know this kind of stuff. So we could fix all these problems. Like really simply, they weren’t hard to solve if you knew what you were doing.
Jerri Hemsworth 21:49
Jennifer Felten 21:50
But most lawyers, their first thing was filed some sort of lawsuit, right? Well, I only filed a lawsuit. If I could not solve it as an escrow officer, you have declared title issues, and you don’t have a lawsuit as an option
Jerri Hemsworth 22:01
Jennifer Felten 22:02
Right? So those skills were like invaluable. You’re just building blocks. So we were getting these things cleaned up. So like he becomes number one in his group, right? Because we’re cleaning all this stuff up quickly and cheaply.
Jerri Hemsworth 22:14
Jennifer Felten 22:15
So all of his friends are like, Oh, who are you using? So now they’re all using us?
Jerri Hemsworth 22:19
Oh, boy. Right. Meanwhile, so back at the barn.
Jennifer Felten 22:24
we have this portfolio of hundreds of properties, that’d B of A base giving us to clear title on. And then I get pregnant again.
Jerri Hemsworth 22:34
I sense a theme with you.
Jennifer Felten 22:35
And things are getting really overwhelming. Right. And so I actually merged the firm with another firm at that point. So this is pre RELAW. Yeah, that firm had a different name. And I just was it was a lot. And, and so we merged with another firm. And I was with them for a couple of years. And we cleaned up all that stuff. And I was starting to build my brand in other ways, right. And at one point, it got to that point where it’s like, you know, where I was going and where they were going. Wasn’t the same wasn’t the same. Sure. And that’s when RELAW was born. And we literally because their office was in Orange County. Oh, and they so I kept the Westlake office, they kept Orange County, I kept the staff I took over the lease and off we went. Yeah, right. That was that. Yeah. So that’s, that’s how RELAW started.
Jerri Hemsworth 23:25
And how many attorneys were with you at that point?
Jennifer Felten 23:27
I had one attorney and one staff. So we were very tight little group. There were three of us.
Jerri Hemsworth 23:33
tight little group of three. Yeah. And how many? And then what year was that?
Jennifer Felten 23:38
It’s eight years ago,
Jerri Hemsworth 23:39
eight years. So
Jennifer Felten 23:40
yeah, RELAW’s eight years old.
Jerri Hemsworth 23:42
And how many attorneys are with you now?
Jennifer Felten 23:43
I five attorneys besides myself, and then six staff, six staff.
Jerri Hemsworth 23:48
Yeah. And you kind of transitioned from doing the day to day legal work, didn’t you? How was what was the what was the reason behind that?
Well, it started with me trying to do everything, right. I mean,
Jennifer Felten 23:59
That’s what we do as business owners.
And you’re just trying to figure everything out. Right. And again, it goes back to there was no education to learn how to do this. And I happened to be a good rainmaker. I am good at bringing in business. But I wasn’t good at managing the business. I definitely didn’t have, as an escrow officer it’s commission based. So I learned how to sell. Yeah, right. And most lawyers don’t learn how to sell. It’s not a skill and they don’t see themselves as salespeople. There’s a confidence, arrogance. I know that we’re professionals, we’re above it. It’s bullshit.
Yeah, or course right. We all have to sell.
Yes. And if you do it, well, you do well, yes. Right. And so I took that mindset and that customer service focus into a law firm. And so we were able to build a client base really quickly who are very low Will and who bring their friends. And, you know, so we that was not my problem. My problem wasn’t getting business, it was managing what came in, and my niche knowledge was valuable. And so most people wanted to work with me because they knew I knew things. And I had the I have a business coach now. So we call the superhero cape, right? Yeah, I had to be the hero, right? I had that mindset. And so I at one point, I had like six employees, but I was still giving more work to myself than the rest of them combined. And then when one of them would actually want help, I’d yell at them, because I didn’t have time to help them because I was trying to do all the other work, and then all their stuff would just literally pile up because I couldn’t it couldn’t go out without me reviewing it, heaven forbid, right. Right. So all of that, and it was it was imploding, right, because I physically couldn’t do it all and
Jerri Hemsworth 25:54
your stomach, and your gut knew this. And you must have been churning.
Jennifer Felten 25:58
It was It was torture. Yes, I was miserable. And everybody else was miserable, right? Because that’s just it didn’t work, right. And literally, you know how sometimes there’s things happen. I literally get this email and it says, Are you overworked? Do you feel like you have to do everything? Right? Like it had all the
You’re speaking to me?
Yes, I do. Yes. Yes.
Jerri Hemsworth 26:25
And yes, again? Yes.
Jennifer Felten 26:27
Well call us and we’ll evaluate your firm and help you right. So it was the coaching company, literally, I got a random solicitation from my coaching company. And I called them that day. And I’ve had a coach ever since. And it was just the right place at the right time with the right message. And then if it was the right fit, right, I mean, I encourage any business owner to get a business coach, if you really want to grow your business, if you just want to do you know your thing, and be or be a solo, great, you’re fine. But if you really want to build something you need support,
Jerri Hemsworth 27:09
and ease your stress level. I mean, what was it? When did you realize after getting the coach and putting other systems in place and and workflows in place? Did you did you feel the stress, ease immediately? Or did it take time?
Jennifer Felten 27:30
It got worse before it got better?
Right? Because one it’s transition, right? And two it is building the systems. And so some things didn’t go right, right, and things would go wrong. Right. And you’re trying to put the systems in place and still do everything you’re trying to do. So we called it drinking from a firehose, right, like so we literally and the coaching company we use called Atticus, they are amazing. If you’re an attorney, they’re amazing company. But you have to do the work. They don’t just come in and fix your problems. They give you the tools for you to fix your problems. And they focus on four areas. Profitability because I had revenue, I didn’t have profit.
Jerri Hemsworth 28:11
Yes, I understand that.
Jennifer Felten 28:12
Yeah, they’re not the same thing.
Jerri Hemsworth 28:14
No, yeah, two very different things.
Jennifer Felten 28:18
I had at rainmaking right. Now I’m good at remaking so that one wasn’t a big deal, but managing it and figuring out the right types for a professional service firm. Because not everything is the right fit for a professional service firm. And also just understanding your clientele. So we’re, we’re business to business, right versus business to consumer. And that changes how you market. Rick extreme.
Yeah, it’s a huge different, right? But you, if you don’t know that, you’re you’re gonna spend money on SEO and stuff that does not gonna do anything for you. Right? And then time management, which was my biggest problem, and staffing, right, helping you manage people and how to do that, right. So those people for the right, that’s four pillars, right of their management. And so we’re getting all this, oh, you should do this. And you should do this and right. And so we were taking all this in and then synthesizing and then trying things and some things that worked and some things we had to tweak and right. It took a couple of years. Honestly, it took about two years. In two years, we doubled our revenue. we more than doubled our profit, we more than doubled our staff. Wow. And I I probably work 50 hours a week versus 70 or more, which we were doing before I was doing before
Jerri Hemsworth 28:42
and you have two little kids
Jennifer Felten 28:47
and things like actually take vacations. Oh and take time off and I
Jerri Hemsworth 29:45
What’s that? How do you spell that?
Jennifer Felten 29:52
You know? So one of the things with the coaching is you’re supposed to take a certain number of days off a year. That’s one of the goals. So So this year, I am taking five weeks off.
Jerri Hemsworth 30:02
Good for you.
Jennifer Felten 30:03
So I just got back from two weeks, where when I was gone for two weeks, I did not talk to one client and two weeks.
Jerri Hemsworth 30:11
How did you feel?
Jennifer Felten 30:12
I loved it. And I love my clients, right? I love what I do. But honestly, I came back rejuvenated and motivated
Jerri Hemsworth 30:23
Jennifer Felten 30:24
I’m much more helpful than I was before because I was burnt and tired because it you know, I was I needed the vacation, right? And I’ve, we built the team so that I can take two weeks off and the firm functions with me being gone for two weeks that I talk about a firm’s lifecycle, as much as like a child, right. So when I first started so one year old, right, you can’t leave a one year old alone for two weeks, things are not gonna go well. Right? It will not be around when you get back. No, I have an eight year old now. Right? So I, you know, I can I can check in and I can watch right, but it can manage and feed itself and you know, it can it can survive. And we have an amazing team, which again, there they want to be there we built the right culture. We are a lifestyle firm, and that’s a big deal.
Jerri Hemsworth 31:17
So a lot of law firms are not lifestyle firms, are they?
Jennifer Felten 31:21
Well, law firms focus on billable hours.
Jerri Hemsworth 31:23
Jennifer Felten 31:24
So when you go look for a job, they’re part of the ad is going to say how many billable hours you’re expected to do. And that’s a business decision that the person makes of how many billable hours am I willing to commit to?
Jerri Hemsworth 31:35
Jennifer Felten 31:36
we don’t talk in billable hours at our firm.
Jerri Hemsworth 31:38
Jennifer Felten 31:39
So the way our firm works, and we’re blessed in that again, I’m a good rainmaker. So I hire seasoned attorneys who have the experience, who are they can do the work without me babysitting them, but who don’t want to go out and get business? You know, I enjoy it. But most people don’t. Right? Right, right, that the networking and the schmoozing, and it’s a lot of energy. Most people don’t want to do this. And so someone who’s been doing this for 30 years, and that’s just not the skill set they’ve developed, they’re happy to make a good living, work regular hours, and have the work right there for them. Right. So that’s the model we’ve built. So we their compensation is based upon what they want to do. So the based upon their hourly rate, they have to bill three times what they get paid. So if I’m paying them $150,000 a year, they need to bill $450,000 a year.
Jerri Hemsworth 32:32
Jennifer Felten 32:33
At our our, our billable hour for them, that’s about four hours a day. Right,
Jerri Hemsworth 32:40
Jennifer Felten 32:40
So a normal reasonable amount of time, you know, for them to what they have to build. People don’t understand what we build and how many hours we work are not the same thing.
Jerri Hemsworth 32:50
Jennifer Felten 32:51
A lot of what you do doesn’t isn’t isn’t billable, right? But so for four hours a day, they can make a good living and have a you know, a normal life. Yeah. Right. And so it’s a really attractive model where no one’s pushing you. And there’s not that and they’re not worried about, there’s no competition within the office of this is my client, this is your client, are you and all that drama, we work as a team, and it’s our clients. Right?
Jerri Hemsworth 33:17
Jennifer Felten 33:18
And, and so we built a model that’s outside than the norm, but for us has been believable.
Jerri Hemsworth 33:26
And as a, as a business owner.
I know I chose the way I want to run my business. Yep. And, and if somebody doesn’t care for it, this is not the place for them.
Jennifer Felten 33:40
Jerri Hemsworth 33:40
But I’m very clear, I have dogs, I have a cat you know, this is it’s a it’s very relaxed, but we’re very serious about what we do. And if you don’t like to laugh, and you don’t like to have fun, but and there are those people that just have never fit in because they don’t feel
it’s their place. It’s whatever it is. But I chose and much like you chose to, to run it this way, no matter what other people have done and said.
And I think at the end of every year, I see we have become different role models, and perhaps inspired those who are working with us or near us to be something different and not have to fit into a mold. This is what you have to do when you run a law firm or a marketing firm, you know?
Jennifer Felten 34:35
Yep. And I think it goes to once you can get over the I gotta pay the bills. Right, right. When you start you take I mean, we we are very selective of what clients we take. So we don’t take on a large swath of real estate business. And part of our vetting processes. This is the right fit for us. Yes, right. And, and it’s as much for the clients benefit as ours, because they’re not going to be happy if we’re not the right fit for them any more than we’re not gonna be happy the other way around. So that but you don’t start out like that.
Jerri Hemsworth 35:14
No, you take anything when you when you have to,
Jennifer Felten 35:16
You take what walks in the door?
Jerri Hemsworth 35:19
Yeah, as I say, when you have to put cookies in the cupboard, you take what you can
Jennifer Felten 35:23
Jerri Hemsworth 35:23
But when you get to that place where you can afford to fire clients, hire the ones and interview the clients, right? That is a very wonderful space.
Jennifer Felten 35:35
Well, and that’s where we’re at. And that’s where you’re able to build these things, the way you choose to write once you’ve hit that point. It’s inertia, right, that, you know, I’m not worried about where the next Yeah, we get three to four referral calls a day, whatever, it was just one to new to new clients a day. Right?
Jerri Hemsworth 35:56
That’s so amazing.
Jennifer Felten 35:57
And that’s with us selecting out at least half of what walks in the door. Right, right. And so you once you’ve built that, then you can you can create it right? Both for your staff, you curate your staff, and you curate your clients.
Jerri Hemsworth 36:14
Jennifer Felten 36:14
And then it’s a happy like, people mad joy coming to work, right? They like their job. Yes, they’re happy. The clients are happy. We it it all circles and works together. Right? So we have a pleasant place that so you’re gonna find people who want that. Yes. Right. Yes. And and not every hires perfect. No, right. Yeah, um, there are some times it’s not the right fit. But we, you know, we’ve been in think about what kind of environment we’ve been in from a hiring standpoint, we have not had a problem hiring,
Jerri Hemsworth 36:52
yeah no, that. And I think it becomes a breath of fresh air when people find our firms. And they think, Wow, is this for real?
Jennifer Felten 37:02
They don’t believe me?
Jerri Hemsworth 37:03
Right? Oh, we’ve had many, many people that we will hire out of right out of college, because we, you know, we’re teachers we like to teach.
And, and we, we fully say, we don’t expect you to be here for years upon years, right. Brian and I think we’re lucky if they’ll stay two or three years. But that’s kind of wishful thinking. Because they always have this idea. They want to go to a big firm, they want that experience. And we say yes, go have that experience. Go to the big firm, young grasshopper. And they go, and we’ve kept in touch, I would say with 70% of the people who who have worked for us, right. And, and there are a couple that have come back on a on a project basis or things like that. And they said, Oh, my gosh, you’re so right. And and then there’s the people who have been in the big, bright big firm, and they see us and they just oh, I can relax. I can wear my sneakers. I can wear shorts during the summer. I can relax and and have fun.
Jennifer Felten 38:20
Yeah, well, that’s our model with our attorneys is taking those people who’ve been through that, right, that the law profession will beat you up and spit you out. Right Is it is not pleasant, or easy. And the expectations and there’s a reason the burnout numbers and the alcoholism numbers and drug abuse. There it is. There’s there’s a reason. Yes. So the people who’ve been there done that and are ready, you know, at that backend of their career to just have a happy place to finish out or the fit for us. Right. And they’re happy and do their do their thing
Jerri Hemsworth 38:59
Jennifer Felten 39:00
Right. And, and we do we appreciate them. And they enjoy what they do. Yeah, right. And they’re not they don’t have those pressures that were on them. And they can have time with their families and and be who they want to be.
Jerri Hemsworth 39:16
Well, I think as soon as you took away that billable hour, demon, correct, then then it allows them to be normal.
Jennifer Felten 39:25
It’s funny, because I think if we had billable hour requirements, they’d probably build less.
Jerri Hemsworth 39:31
Jennifer Felten 39:31
Right? Yeah, it’s a it’s a interesting psychology. Right? Yeah, they just do their thing. And they’re happy to do their thing. And they’re not thinking about it,
Jerri Hemsworth 39:43
Jennifer Felten 39:43
It just happens, right? I mean, that’s just real world like, sure. You know, I’m not thinking about how much money I can make on any particular file when I’m working on it. I am trying to solve the problem at the most efficient most cost effective manner and means I make less per deal. But they come back and they bring their friends. It works out just fine. Right? So it really goes to that. Where are we coming at each problem with and when we’re coming at it with what’s the client’s best interest in my staffer in that same boat, right? They’re not worried about, I have to make this many billable hours off of this file
Jerri Hemsworth 40:22
Jennifer Felten 40:23
Right? Because they don’t have that mindset either, then we really are going at it from how can we mitigate and manage this situation for your best interest? And, and so it just makes for a positive experience on both sides. Right.
Jerri Hemsworth 40:40
So you have a young daughter and a young son? Are you aware of the influence? Role modeling that you’re doing for them?
Jennifer Felten 40:50
I see it. My kids play office.
Jerri Hemsworth 40:54
I did too. My dad was a business owner, I played office.
Jennifer Felten 40:57
So and my it’s so it’s interesting that because I still work a lot, right? And they still see me work.
Jerri Hemsworth 41:04
Jennifer Felten 41:05
A lot. And so we’re blessed in that my husband does work with me at the firm. Now. He left that job and is our operations manager at our firm. And it was a choice we made as the firm was growing, to bank on ourselves, right? Because literally, we would be at home fighting over who got to go to work on the weekend, and I need to work late tonight. Well, someone has to watch the kids, right? There was this constant struggle, because we were both trying to build careers, right? And we were like, Okay, we need to be in the same boat going in the same direction. And why did we have kids if we’re never going to be there. And so bringing Fred into the business, he takes the kids to school, he picks them up from school and is like, he’s on the school board. He’s very involved with the children, he still does work. He, you know, he’s an integral part of the firm in the operations. But his priority is our household and our children. And so I’m often the one who’s not at home, whether it’s I’m at a networking event, or I’m at a speaking gig
Jerri Hemsworth 41:05
Or doing a podcast.
Jennifer Felten 42:16
Or right. You know, so they do they, and you see that modeling in their behavior. But I also see that and it was the same with my older daughter. I mean, I literally drove her to law school with me classes that she loved that she remembers, she still tells me about it. Even at 30
Jerri Hemsworth 42:36
Jennifer Felten 42:36
She remembers. And, you know, it’s funny because she’s made different choices. And my daughter is smarter than I am. She was valedictorian at Oaks Christian. Went to Vanderbilt on a full ride scholarship. double majored in computer science and math with an engineering management minor. Whoa, right. So she’s a stay at home mom.
Jerri Hemsworth 43:00
So for now,
Jennifer Felten 43:02
She loves it, right? She’s happy as a clam. And, and I would have slit my throat if I had to stay home and be a mom. But she those examples led her to that. Sure, right. Despite what she could be doing what I’m doing in spades. She’s made those choices, which I honor and appreciate completely. But my kids, I see that modeling in my younger children, too, right? So their behavior, how they problem solve, right? And, and as a parent, making sure that I’m helping them do those things mean, I think we as parents have made a lot of mistakes is a group in trying to buffer challenges, and everybody’s getting a trophy and nobody fails. And
Jerri Hemsworth 43:44
I agree 100%.
Jennifer Felten 43:45
And so, you know, it’s it was something I really focused on with my older daughter and I do with my younger children. They’re not good at everything. And, and I tell them,
Jerri Hemsworth 43:54
Jennifer Felten 43:55
It’s okay. You’re just not your thing.
Jerri Hemsworth 43:57
It’s not your strength.
Jennifer Felten 43:58
And, you know, and, you know, yes, you’re going to struggle with your homework, sometimes I’m not going to do it for you. Right. And, you know, maybe making friends is challenging, you know, you know, we’re gonna have to go outside the box and but you need to actually make them do that you don’t go fix it for them. Yeah, they have to walk through the struggles. And so I, I, I raised them the way I work with my staff, right, because it’s the same thing. Sure, they are learning, you know, my staff are amazing technicians. But customer service isn’t necessarily where their starting point is, right? Because again, law school doesn’t teach you that’s not the mindset of law school. So often, that’s where my role is, is helping them learn those skills and learn how to communicate both with the other side or with the client to again get to the result we’re trying to get to so i i say i parent my staff, just like a parent my kids have. I need you to I need you to go out there I’ll be right here if you need me, but you’re on your training wheels but but you’re Gonna do this stuff? Yeah, right? No, it’s a great and it means sometimes we fall down.
Jerri Hemsworth 45:04
Everybody falls down. We fall down as business owners mom reps. And it’s what we choose the language we use and say, yep, I messed up on that one. Yeah, I own that one. And it’s okay.
Jennifer Felten 45:18
Well, and that I think is the biggest part of it is, we do make mistakes, everybody makes mistakes. We step up and particular ice, I take full responsibility ultimately, for everything. So if there’s a mistake, I’m the one who’s you know, coughing up whatever it is to resolve it and fix it and manage it. That’s what you do. Yep. Right, I get the rewards. I also get the risk. Right?
Jerri Hemsworth 45:46
We do the dirty work when we have to. Yeah, and it’s not pleasant. But then I stop and think, Okay, what am I? What are my team members learning by watching me go through this?
Jennifer Felten 45:57
You can’t have the good without the bad.
Jerri Hemsworth 46:00
Jennifer Felten 46:00
It doesn’t happen? No. So if you think it’s all going to be you know, sunshine, and butterflies and roses, you’re gonna be disappointed really quick,
Jerri Hemsworth 46:09
Jennifer Felten 46:10
And it’s not gonna work. Right. So you have to be prepared to manage the hard things. Just as and some days I go home and I cry. Sure.
Jerri Hemsworth 46:20
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Jennifer Felten 46:22
And you know, some days I’m like, why am I doing this?
Jerri Hemsworth 46:24
Yeah, where am I going? What have I signed up for.
Jennifer Felten 46:27
what is this? Right?
Jerri Hemsworth 46:27
Jennifer Felten 46:29
But way more days, I go home saying, You know what, someone’s life is better, because we were involved.
Jerri Hemsworth 46:36
Jennifer Felten 46:36
And we mitigated and we solved a problem. And, you know, yeah, you know, and the reality is, sometimes my clients make mistakes, right? Oh, just like we do. And so, you know, if their risk was $200,000, and I’ve gotten them out for 10, or $20,000. That’s a win.
Jerri Hemsworth 46:54
That’s an absolute win.
Jennifer Felten 46:55
Right. But that’s only a win if we’ve set the right expectations. Right. So, you know, again, it goes back to your your win is managing, right? It’s not part of our mission statement is win win. So it only works when it’s a win win outcome.
Jerri Hemsworth 47:16
Jennifer Felten 47:16
Even in litigation. a win win outcome is going to be better for everyone than a win lose. Right? So again, that Pitbull term apart. don’t win, you know, there’s no win no, in that. So that’s that that mindset, you know, circles all the way back. And that’s how we get to where we’re at and what, and then so I go home a lot of days with someone has heartfeltly said, you know, my life is better, because you were in it. Right? And so that’s what gets you up
Jerri Hemsworth 47:51
Jennifer Felten 47:52
at 430. The next day. Yeah.
Jerri Hemsworth 47:54
Let me say, that’s why I’m doing what I’m doing.
Jennifer Felten 47:56
Jerri Hemsworth 47:57
Because I made somebody’s life better and correct. And when they acknowledge that, it’s, it’s a great day.
And I would say almost every day someone says, Thank you. I really am that blessed that almost every day. I hear that. Some days, I hear a lot of bad things too. Sure.
Sure. But that comes with the territory.
Jennifer Felten 48:16
You know we’re dealing with, look, everything I’m dealing with is is acrimony. Right. People don’t call their attorneys because things are going well. Yeah. Right. Oh, I had to tell you about this great file. And you know,
Jerri Hemsworth 48:30
Yeah, no. Somebody’s got a problem.
Jennifer Felten 48:32
The starting point is always a problem. So I spend my day dealing with problems. And so you can get really depressed.
Jerri Hemsworth 48:40
Jennifer Felten 48:40
and you can feel defeated. And sometimes the problems are really scary. And you’re like, how are we going to deal with this? What what, you know, I, sometimes it’s really hard. But it’s doing the best you can and making the most of, of the situation. And the reality is, I have we’ve made it work in it mean, I’ve had clients lose millions of dollars in wire fraud.
Jerri Hemsworth 49:09
Oh, my Yes.
Jennifer Felten 49:11
And we’ve had to figure out and manage those situations. Not one client has gone out of business, on our launch with a wire fraud. We have saved every one so far.
Jerri Hemsworth 49:23
That’s a great testimony to what you guys do.
Jennifer Felten 49:25
I mean, that’s, you know, that’s the kind of stuff and we’re, you know, we’re dealing with real, real issues.
Jerri Hemsworth 49:33
That I mean, you’re saving not only, you are saving lives, and livelihoods, right,
Jennifer Felten 49:40
I mean, we’re keeping the economy going. We’re keeping people’s families and I mean, I feel like that with my firm, right? It’s not I have 12 families I am responsible for
Jerri Hemsworth 49:51
Jennifer Felten 49:51
right that you know, when COVID hit yes, I, right. How am I going to keep all these people
Jerri Hemsworth 49:59
that’s my first question, my first question isn’t “how am I going to survive?” It is, “how am I going to keep my team members in place? What do I need to do?”
Jennifer Felten 50:08
Jerri Hemsworth 50:08
I mean, how can i protect them?
Jennifer Felten 50:10
That was a wake up call. Right? Yeah. I mean, have we I had never been in a point, you know, Black Swan, right? Yeah. Never been in a place where I saw that coming. And then all of a sudden, I literally had to keep food in people’s mouths and keep things going. And we at the time, we were doing business in the cannabis space. So we were not eligible for a PPP loan.
Jerri Hemsworth 50:34
Oh yeah, they wouldn’t do it.
Jennifer Felten 50:35
So I didn’t get any money.
Jerri Hemsworth 50:38
Jennifer Felten 50:39
I made it work without it. Sure. Right. And things like I was doing daily updates. We were putting out notices with our constant contact of these are the rules. This is what people are saying because our escrow companies were essential, right? They’re a financial service. So they couldn’t shut down. But they’re trying to be in the office managing people’s money during curfews, right? And so literally every day, we’re like, Okay, this is what you can do this is I mean, we were literally writing attorney opinion letters for people that keep in their car with them, right, because they’d be driving home during curfew, or after curfew, and they were worried about the police pulling them over. And so they would have an attorney letter from us saying you’re an essential, this is an essential service, I’m going to my job, so that they because they were scared that they were gonna get arrested for trying to do their job. Yep. Right. Yeah. The fear. And so we were there every day putting out stuff and people, like our business grew. Because they felt like they had a support system. And they knew you were there. Right. And so we did things we weren’t doing before, right. Like, we changed. We wrote policies and procedures, manuals, we negotiated with the regulator to allow them to work remotely. We got, you know, because of things that were going on, like, we were doing things, employee issues, all kinds of stuff. That wasn’t what we would normally do, but we were keeping people again, keeping the economy going and keeping businesses going. And, you know, escrow companies are almost all women owned, right? These are small women owned businesses just like us. Sure, right, who were trying to make it work and and we were able to be there for them. And you know, then they were there for us.
Jerri Hemsworth 52:24
Jennifer Felten 52:26
Jerri Hemsworth 52:27
you love what you do?
Jennifer Felten 52:28
I do. Which is weird.
Jerri Hemsworth 52:30
It’s evident. Yeah. What’s wrong with you?
Jennifer Felten 52:34
Jerri Hemsworth 52:34
What’s wrong with you?
Jennifer Felten 52:35
Um, no, I do love. I have a passion. It’s not just, it’s not just a job.
Jerri Hemsworth 52:41
It really oozes from you. And that’s what’s so wonderful about your story is yeah, you are not just along for the ride. This means a lot to you.
Jennifer Felten 52:51
I believe that we’re making the world better. Right. And that, that’s why I went to law school at the end of the day, right. That’s why I wanted to be a psychiatrist. Right, was that that desire to be of service is always been there. It was just how. And I’ve been blessed to find a good how for me, right, that has been a good fit, and that I can, I can go home every day knowing I’ve helped people. Yeah, right. The rest of it all just happens, right? Like, I don’t worry about, you know, the rest of it. Like, yes, I’ve done well, because of what I do. But that’s that’s just gravy. That’s I don’t I don’t do this because the money. Right? Right.
Jerri Hemsworth 53:41
Jennifer Felten 53:42
I mean, if there wasn’t money, I might have to do something else. Right. I’m, I’m human and I have responsibilities. But that’s, that really is ancillary.
Jerri Hemsworth 53:51
I, I prefer to lead with with an outstretched, with a with a giving heart and not an outstretched hand.
Jennifer Felten 53:58
Jerri Hemsworth 53:59
And it rewards tenfold.
Jennifer Felten 54:02
You get way more than you give it you know, it’s it. I don’t know how it works. I don’t know why I don’t care. But honestly, you see it right. When you when you work with other business owners and professionals, you see who’s coming at it from that space?
Jerri Hemsworth 54:20
Jennifer Felten 54:20
And they’re the ones who are making it work. Right. You know, networking is follows the 80/20 rule, just like everything else,
Jerri Hemsworth 54:29
Jennifer Felten 54:29
Right. And 20% of the people do 80% of the business. And those 20 people are the ones who are out there actively trying to get business for other people.
Jerri Hemsworth 54:38
Jennifer Felten 54:39
Jerri Hemsworth 54:39
Jennifer Felten 54:40
And those are the ones who are successful at it being connected.
Jerri Hemsworth 54:44
Jen, thank you for being with me today. This is a great story. I so appreciate you build.
Jennifer Felten 54:49
This is great.
Jerri Hemsworth 54:50
And we’ll talk soon.
Jennifer Felten 54:51
Jerri Hemsworth 54:52
You’ve been listening to the How She Got Her Start podcast brought to you by Echelon Business Development. More than just networking, way more.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai