Tax Matters Specialty Group Podcast with Gary Weiss—Steve Weber

Announcer  00:00

The Echelon Radio Network presents the tax matters radio podcast a conversation about money for everyone with your host Gary Weiss.

Gary Weiss  00:18

Welcome to the Echelon Tax Matters specialty group podcast. I am your host, Gary Weiss. Why should you listen to this podcast? Because it’s fun, informative and easy to understand. And besides, it’s free. It’s a podcast written and developed for those of us impacted by the complex, lengthy and confusing tax laws. Taxes of all kinds are part of our everyday life. And this podcast is a way to bring you relevant, easy to understand, and very relatable topics to help you make informed sound financial decisions. If this is your first time hearing this podcast My first question is why and why haven’t you listened to the other ones, so make up for it. I am a licensed CPA in California since 1996. And I practice in Woodland Hills with my partner, Quinton staples. I also specialize in tax resolution services, which is back tax returns and filed this on file that and being in when you’re hassled by the government, hence my tagline I fight the fascist state of California and the evil empire known as the IRS. Okay, enough of this intro stuff, no one cares anyway. Besides, my guest has given me that look that says Come on. Let’s get started. So let’s get started. Today’s guest is Steve Weber, of HW Premier Insurance Services. Steve, welcome to the podcast.

Steve Weber  01:40

Thank you for having me.

Gary Weiss  01:42

Let’s begin by startup begin by you telling us a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are.

Steve Weber  01:49

So yeah, a background in insurance. I don’t know if that’s something to be that excited about. But I’ve been doing insurance for over a decade now. My partner has been doing it for three decades. And we specialize in using insurance to move assets but we also work with the everyday person that needs insurance and wants a quality product and and has we have their back more than just trying to find something that they need or don’t need.

Gary Weiss  02:21

Yeah, well tell us a little bit about you as a man and how you got here and things you’ve done in the past that might be more exciting than insurance.

Steve Weber  02:29

Well, I started I moved from Detroit back in the late 70s moved out here and decided I wanted to get a career in entertainment. So I spent 30 years in entertainment. It’s a long day, that’s a long week. The hours are immense. But you know, at the end of the day, you’re you’re happy with what you put out. But after 30 years of that I figured, you know, it was time for a new career new change and met my partner and decided that get into the financial services business, and definitely wouldn’t be working the 6070 hour weeks. So we specialize in insurance, mostly life and disability and long term care. We don’t do home and auto and all my friends say I got an auto policy, you know, what can I do? And I said, Listen, I’m the wrong guy for that. I really know how to do my own policy. That’s okay.

 

Gary Weiss  03:27

At least you know what you do? And you probably do it really well. But is most people say like when we talked earlier, as soon as you mentioned the word insurance, up, go the blinders, people go, you know, get cataracts indoors immediately and don’t see anything. But insurance can be a very important tool in the economic toolbox. So help us understand the role of insurance in the various parts of your economic life.

Steve Weber  03:56

Well, it buying insurance, like I told you earlier, nobody wakes up in the morning saying, hey, I want to buy insurance, or I’m excited to buy insurance, they’d rather go to Best Buy or buy a big screen TV, there’s just no way around it. But we all need insurance, because what we’re doing is we’re transferring the risks from our personal lives to an insurance company. And they’ll be there every step of the way to take over that risk. And when you look at the risk, if you were looking at, say your home or auto insurance, the cost of buying insurance is much less than you having to carry that risk on your cells of if you got into a car accident or injury, that you’d be bankrupt. So having insurance, transfer that risk to the insurance company and that’s what their whole business is, is risk and they’re willing to take that risk because they have 1000s of policies and some will cash in and some won’t cash it in the life insurance business. What you’re doing is you’re protecting the downside of a catastrophic you economic failure in your own home, if something were to happen to you, so you can, most people who are if someone if the breadwinner dies, they’re 30 days away from being evicted from their apartment. So having some of that risk added to the insurance company and them taking it on, for a low cost to someone to buy insurance, they can actually make sure that their families are protected, and the insurance company will step in and give them a lump sum of money to pay for rent and, or basic needs.

Gary Weiss  05:32

So help the listeners understand how insurance is an important tool in the estate planning process. You know, when as you as people at Mass wealth, they want to pass that wealth on? That’s maybe one of the main reasons why they have it, and how does insurance help them do that. So in a way that they can maximize what they do pass on?

Steve Weber  05:56

Well, everyone’s got a different situation. And for the people that are high net worth, and are in a state tax situation, where they’ve made a lot of money, and they’ve been very successful. But at the time of death, the government says, Hey, if you’re over the exemption, and we can get into that, but you’re gonna have to pay estate taxes, even though you paid taxes all the way for other income or anything else. Regarding that, you’re gonna pay estate taxes. So using insurance, we’ll help you mitigate that by the insurance company picking up that tab if you buy enough with it.

Gary Weiss  06:37

Right. For those who don’t understand or don’t remember, the what Steve was referring to is the estate tax limitation, which it currently is at 12 and a half million dollars per person. Now, this is going to sunset at the end of 2025. And there’s going to be a lot of estate problems, but we’re going to deal with that in a future podcast. But Insurance insurance is one way to help you pass on that wealth. And you need to work with a team when you have an estate should be an estate planning attorney, an accountant an insurance person, so that you are able to maximize that what you pass on, and pay as little taxes as possible. So let’s keep going on. Hill I we discussed this earlier, one of the big things I have with my clients is I bought an insurance I bought an apartment building, I’m going to stick it in an LLC, because I’m going to protect it that way. So tell us, is that really a good way to protect it? And what would my How would insurance come into play with such a purchase like that?

Steve Weber  07:44

Well, putting in an LLC is you know, you’re looking for transferring that risk from yourself to the LLC. But that’s not necessarily the case always. And I think you need to talk to somebody who has knowledge and what that LLC will protect you from. But if you bought basically just an insurance policy, whether it’s a liability policy or an umbrella policy, that’s going to provide you much more protection. And it’s going to it’s at a low cost is the cost, you’d be surprised how inexpensive it is to buy a liability policy or an umbrella policy is probably less than what it’s gonna cost you to run that LLC by the time you pay the annual fee of $800 and file a tax return. Great. So

Gary Weiss  08:27

what is the difference between a regular policy and an umbrella policy? How does that work? And how do they work together?

Steve Weber  08:34

Well, general liability policy you’re paying for, basically, if someone gets hurt on the property, or something’s working on the property, an umbrella policy will just cover everything, just that’s why it’s called an umbrella policy. So there’s, they kind of work the same, but the umbrella policy can be purchased for even less expensive than a general liability policy.

Gary Weiss  08:58

For again, to our listeners, a single member LLC. If that was you, you own it, you have no other members, if you’re married, you can say well, my wife or my spouse is a partner doesn’t work that way single member LLC is what’s referred to as a disregarded entity and shows up on your schedule, ie on your personal tax return. So in the event of a catastrophic loss, single member LLCs are not really good at protecting, protecting you. The best way to do that is I tell all my clients who have are in that situation, talk to an insurance person, get a regular general liability policy and buy a large umbrella policy. And you’ll spend less than that 800 bucks a year and you’ll have way more protection. Now if you happen to own you know, a large apartment building in Bakersfield. You need to cover yourself differently when the meth lab blows up but that again is for another discussion. So another one of the questions that come I get all the time when when a my clients about insurance If they don’t understand what’s the difference between an admitted carrier and a non admitted carrier.

Steve Weber  10:08

It’s a little tricky admitted carriers are, I guess state approved or government approved and not admitted. They could have some offshore parts to them. And I think the government looks at those as a little bit suspicious. So you always want to use it admitted carrier, give us

Gary Weiss  10:27

an example of a non admitted carrier that you use.

Steve Weber  10:32

I don’t specialize in using P and C type property and casualty type insurance, I do have a license for that. But I don’t actually use any of those type of carriers because I don’t sell a those type of products. But even if I did, I would always use someone who’s credible, a credible company that’s accredited here, that has a high rating, because I think we should all be looking at the risk ratings of these companies, because they are companies that are vulnerable to everything else, that every other company is they have employees, they have cash flow, they have their own insurance needs to cover them. And although an insurance company has never failed to pay out a claim, you still want to get a company that has good ratings, and that is in good standing with the US government or your local insurance. Commissioner,

Gary Weiss  11:25

you bring up a really interesting point that nobody ever thinks of, you know, when I’m going to buy insurance, I watched my ads on TV, I’m going to buy, you know, triple A or, or State Farm or mercury, and they never look at beyond that picture. And you just mentioned risk ratings. Tell us a little bit about why the average person should look at that in an insurance company.

Steve Weber  11:49

Well, I don’t think, to try and bring it down to the easiest to understand. If you’re going to a restaurant, and you look at the restaurant, and there’s a C on the door, which means that’s the health department’s ratings, you’re probably not gonna go to that restaurant, you’re gonna go to a different restaurant that has a rating. Well, insurance companies, if they have a poor rating, there’s a reason why they have a poor rating. They’re just bad customer service, they haven’t paid out the claims for fast enough. And the ratings and there’s a few different types of ratings, there’s the am best, there’s Fitch, there’s the context. So there’s a bunch of different ratings, but really, the am best is probably your easiest to understand it’s a letter grade, and you want to do any company that is a plus down to a minus, you should be fine. And I’m sure there’s reviews out there and every insurance company and you want to do some homework to find out who’s gonna be there when you need them. Because if they’re not gonna be there when you need them, there’s no sense buying from them.

Gary Weiss  12:52

Okay, so I’m going to time It’s time to renew my insurance. So I make an appointment, I go say I’m gonna go visit my insurance man, or woman or whatever the insurance person. And I get there, what kind of questions should I ask that are that most people don’t ask.

Steve Weber  13:12

I think when you go meet with any insurance agent, I think you have an idea of what you want, what you need, and what you can afford. And I think that’s the first homework someone should do is have an idea of what’s affordable, and what can help them sleep at night. Because an insurance agent, whether they’re to help, they don’t know what your situation is, and you don’t want to buy, you don’t want to be over insured and cash poor. So there’s just, if you have that goal, that homework that you’ve done going in, you’ll be more educated when you start talking to somebody about what your needs are and what your needs. What you can afford. Great. Okay,

Gary Weiss  13:54

so should I ever say to my insurance person, I don’t want to use that company? Or can you tell me why I should use that company as opposed to this company? Should? Should I be asking those questions? Or should I just rely upon the insurance agent to tell me that or just assume me they know what they’re doing?

Steve Weber  14:12

Well, there’s two different types of insurance agents, there’s what’s called captive, which is an insurance agent can only sell the company that they’re working for. And then there’s non captives that are allowed to sell which is more like an insurance broker that can give you all different companies to look at. an insurance agent that’s a non captive should give you five or six choices on what they feel are the best. And then you can do your own homework and see which company makes you feel better. I remember when MetLife used to have the Snoopy character. Everybody wanted the Snoopy character, and MetLife as you can see today, they’re not even around anymore, and there’s no Snoopy and there’s a reason for that, because they really weren’t taking care of their clients. But they had that Snoopy in that When people were like, Oh, that let’s do the Snoopy or people rushed to athlet, because they liked the duck. And I don’t think that’s a reason to buy from any of these companies.

Gary Weiss  15:09

Alright, so tell our listeners, what makes you different in the way you treat your customers, and how do you take care of them?

Steve Weber  15:17

Well, since we are a boutique, high end insurance broker, our clients are usually the CPAs, and the attorneys that work with their clients. And we wouldn’t have those relationships unless we were giving the proper advice, the correct numbers, and doing our due diligence and knowing what we have to say to the CPA or the attorney, that it’s really the right thing to look at. And I think that’s where when it comes down to someone who just is looking for tenure term insurance, or long term care, or disability, we use that same principle. It’s not always about what we need. It’s about what’s best for the client.

Gary Weiss  16:07

Absolutely. So let’s just change directions here for a moment. I know you don’t do the property and casualty. But a lot of listeners are curious. Now you we had that huge train derailment, right where there was noxious chemicals spilled. And then we had all the fires in California. And where PG and E was supposedly responsible. How do insurance companies deal with these gargantuan losses? I mean, these are not, you know, a million dollar loss, these can run into the billions. How do they deal with these kinds of losses and still stay in business?

Steve Weber  16:43

Well, that’s what I think the problem is here in California, especially after the fires, they have to pay out because they’re mandated by the state to pay these claims out. But you’re finding that what’s happening is they’ve had such big losses that they’re not willing to renew. And they’re not willing to write a new business in these areas. And we’re running low on carriers that are willing to work in these so called Fire areas or flood areas. earthquake insurance is still not as hard to get because we haven’t had a big earthquake in a while. But to buy home insurance, you know, fire areas very difficult these days, and it’s gotten a lot more expensive. And a lot of people are on what’s called the California FAIR Plan, which is a state product. Definitely not the quality that you’d want. But some people are just forced to do that. Because they’d have no, they have no other choices,

Gary Weiss  17:40

right? Well, when you get a mortgage, the mortgage companies requiring you to have fire insurance. So if a regular carrier won’t insure you, that is your last hope. I assume that is the last hope. So we what is the range? I’m hearing all sorts of horror stories from people who had to renew their fire insurance, it went from 3000 to 30,000. I mean, is this realistic? Is this true?

Steve Weber  18:05

It’s what’s happening in the marketplace, but people can’t afford that. So that’s why they end up in the fare plan. And the fare plan, you’re gonna need another company as your comprehensive because the fare plan really does cover you for fire and a need, you need a total loss really, which is unfortunate, because they just don’t look at things the way the other insurance carriers do.

Gary Weiss  18:27

Yeah. So one of the things I worked with years ago, was a company that insures insurance companies reinsurance, can you tell us a little bit how that works?

Steve Weber  18:38

Well, insurance companies need insurance just as well, they they have they’re willing to take on a certain amount of risks. Some of the risks may be over their limits. So they need another partner to come in. That’s called a reinsure. It’s, it’s across the board and all the different types of products that are out there. There’s reinsurers out there, and they’re there to backup the insurance company and take out some of that risk from the insurance company.

Gary Weiss  19:03

So I’m curious than do the reinsures have their own reinsurers? I mean, this is like one of those things that goes on and on and on. And that’s a good,

Steve Weber  19:10

That’s a good question. I don’t know, I’ve ever heard. They’re pretty big companies. They look at if the insurance company that they’re behind is doing their due diligence, they’re willing to step in.

Gary Weiss  19:26

Let’s get we’re gonna change direction slightly. Let’s talk about term and whole life. This is something that to a lot of people is very confusing. They go, well, what’s the difference? And then there’s universal whole life and insurance companies love to put these fancy terms in front of insurance. And as far as I’m concerned, it’s just to confuse people. So can you sort of break it down? Simple, what, what’s the difference? Because those seem to be the two general categories. And there seems to be subcategories under there, which is where everybody goes and gets cataracts instantly when you talk about insurance, right?

Steve Weber  20:01

Yes, the insurance companies are always looking for some new angle to get attract policy owners. There’s term life insurance, which is the cheapest. And that’s what is mostly sold as a basic protection, on turn Term Life Insurance about 4% is always is pretty much whatever gets paid out. So that’s very little. So that’s why the cost can be so low. But these policies are really only good for the term that you pick and there can be 10 years 1520, they’ve even just added a 40 year term, which I think is great for young people that they don’t, they can buy a policy that’s good for 40 years, the price will never change. And they could buy quite a bit of it, and not have to always have to worry about renewing, or having an insurance person coming and going, Hey, I got something better for you. If you look at a whole life policy, or what you mentioned, a index UL, which is those are cash value accumulation policies, and they there’s less death benefit in those, those are the type of policies that you put some money away, and you’ll build cash value, you can use that for whatever your needs are, you can pull it out tax free, and it is an expensive way to buy typical life insurance, but it’s a great way to accumulate cash.

Gary Weiss  21:25

So when do you buy which, you know, either one, the term or the whole life? When is it most applicable for either one?

Steve Weber  21:34

I think it’s, if you’re, say, 35, 40 years old, and you have a job and you have a home and you have a family, you’re definitely going to need term insurance. And you’re going to need to buy a fair amount to cover that, but the cost is pretty low. But if you can buy some whole life or index Universal Life at the same time and start building a bucket of cash, and if it’s affordable, then I would say do both. If you don’t have a employer that is has a 401 K plan and is contributing, you can create your own 401 K plan in a universal life policy, like an index UL, or in a whole life policy. And you’ll have you build a bucket of cash just like you wouldn’t have 401 K, the difference is is that 401k Or a qualified plan like that, you’re gonna be forced to take that money out. Right now it’s at age 75. But you will pay taxes, if you have an insurance policy, as long as you keep that insurance policy going. You can pull it out tax free.

Gary Weiss  22:38

Yeah, this is where we start to lose. Yeah, they’re going to say, I have no clue. But that’s okay. The black hole we call it Yeah, at the end, Steve is going to give you a whole bunch of contact information. And I encourage you to talk to Steve, or at least find out what’s going on. So let me ask this question about age. So you know, people seem to buy life insurance. It all ages or you see you see these things for our to buy this the guy’s 900 years old, you can still buy the term life insurance. What how does that work? I mean, is it obviously the older you are, the more expensive it’s going to be? But should if you’re 70, and you don’t have any insurance, should you buy insurance?

Steve Weber  23:20

Well, that’s at age 70, the cost is gonna be pretty expensive, I mean, it’s gonna be way more than probably most people are willing to pay and that’s why they don’t have insurance at that age. I think the sooner the better, you can buy permanent insurance at 35 4050 years old and you can afford it and have as you go to your age 100 You won’t have to worry about that at age 70 But it’s expensive. And I think he had to find a balance of what you can use for term for the short period while you’re making money and you have a family so when you’re at 70 You have a policy that will last you for as long as you need it

Gary Weiss  24:00

right so it depending on your economic situation, would you recommend a healthy male seven years old and there’s lots of them these days to get term insurance

Steve Weber  24:11

now there’s there’s no reason to buy term insurance at age 70 Because there’s no conversion and we can get into conversion but that’s we’re gonna lose people on that one.

Gary Weiss  24:18

Yeah, besides religious Oh yeah, I wanna I don’t want to go there

Steve Weber  24:23

At age 70 to get a term policy you’re gonna get they could cost as much as the benefit you’re gonna get back it’s just it’s just not the right time to buy term is usually for someone who’s 50 and under. 

Gary Weiss  24:38

So Should a 70 year old healthy male by have any kind of insurance

 

Steve Weber  24:42

At that age. It depends on what your needs are. If you have a state tax issues and you know that you’re gonna have estate tax issues. I think that’s the time definitely to buy some insurance. You might want to look at what’s called a survivorship if you’re married, to cut the cost down. That’s usually what we see it at At age 70, it’s someone who has an estate tax issue. And like you said today, it’s it’s the exemption is pretty high. But back wouldn’t the end of 25 comes that exemption is expected to go pretty weighed, you know, pretty far down. So there could be a lot more people in the estate tax game

 

Gary Weiss  25:19

than what I’ve heard is three and a half million to 5 million depending on, you know, those lovely people in Congress if they can agree on anything. I don’t think they can even agree on lunchtime. Oh, that’s in that place.

 

Steve Weber  25:31

But in Calif, but in Southern California, if it got down to three and a half million dollars or even five, a lot more people are going to be in that state tax issue.

 

Gary Weiss  25:41

Well, yeah, absolutely. Given property values and how things have gone up in the last couple of years. Yeah, it’s going to be a big deal. So another type of insurance, disability insurance. And when you talk to people or you hear insurance people, they’ll say, Well, there’s a short term policy, and there’s a long term policy, and there’s all sorts of disability policies, policies, how do those work

 

Steve Weber  26:02

in a disability? For, for the most part, disability is usually for professionals that if something were to happen, and they couldn’t work, and use their hands or something like that, that’s where we see most of that lot of entertainment, people get disability insurance. But for the everyday person, it’s pretty costly. And usually, they only pay out to age 67. Some or even less, they used to have these policies where they pay forever. And all of a sudden, you saw all these people who had policies were going on disability claim, and you’re like, really, you seem fine. But they had these policies that they knew they would get paid out forever. So that changed that game quite a bit. And disability insurance is maybe not for everybody. There’s short term like an Aflac type policy. And there’s long term disabilities that are Lloyd’s of London or even the big carriers like New York Life mass, Mutual’s those you want to get a quality company because the payouts on those are can be for a long time if you go into a disability situation.

 

Gary Weiss  27:08

I believe Lloyd’s of London is one of those non admitted carriers. People use them for everything, because they’re sort of big, I think, I’m sure,

 

Steve Weber  27:16

Yeah, Lloyd’s of London isn’t not admitted. And if you’re a entertainment professional, that is the only company that will write it.

 

Gary Weiss  27:23

Interesting. Alright. So let’s go back and change directions again, which I love to do. Let’s talk a little bit about the origins of insurance. Do you know much about where did insurance start? How did you know? Why did people insurance stuff when you know, insurance companies, you know, they got these big, huge buildings, they have trillions of dollars in assets or whatever it is they have. So how, where did it start?

 

Steve Weber  27:50

These insurance companies have been around for the most part, hundreds of years. I think MassMutual is 150, New York Life is over 150. I mean, they’ve been around for a long time. Even the other carriers that are out there that do homes and autos, I think someone got an idea that said, hey, if if I can get 100 people to pay me $100 a year back in the 1800s, that I could, if out of those 100 people, I might get two or three that might have a claim. And I can use that money to pay it out, and I’ll still be able to make money. And then when I have that money in my bank, I can start loaning that out to other people that need to build buildings or build roads. And they’re the big part of the finance community is the insurance carriers because they have so much money on hand, their whole business is taking money in finding a way to use that money and grow it in their own general account. And then when the time comes for to pay a claim, they have plenty money to pay that claim out. Now the biggest thing with insurance companies and most people will know that insurance companies will find any way not to make a claim or pay claim. So that’s where the I think they get the bad black mark on their name insurance.

 

Gary Weiss  29:11

Well, that seems to be driving the personal insurance, the PII attorneys, all around CB will get you more for your claim if you were in an accident. I know if you scraped your bumper, we’ll get you a million dollars type thing. So there’s so people understand but let me ask you this question. So I’m, I have insurance. I have a problem with my insurance company. Can I come to you and say, Hey, I don’t think I’m being treated correctly. I’m not sure where to go, can they come to you and get help?

 

Steve Weber  29:41

We’re happy to review any policy we we have plenty of policies right now where an insurance agent came to someone said here borrow a lot of money, you’ll get a big policy, and that policy will build cash and it’ll pay off and then you’ll be able to pay off the the loan that you took. Well, that’s all good. ready to hit the moon the stars lining up. But that doesn’t seem to always work. And right now with the interest rates going up, and the crediting from the insurance company that they’re going to give you back seems to be switching more towards these types of policies not working. So we do a lot of that work, we look at the policies and try and help the clients out to figure out what’s best for them. And when to pull the trigger to either cut loose with this policy or find a way to re refinance it may be, but even that regular term policy, if someone has a policy that the term is coming up, or they’ll wait to the end of the term, and then when they find out what that term cost is to go forward. It’s staggering, because it turns into what’s called an annual renewable term. So they can just jack up the price every year.

 

Gary Weiss  30:50

So, can insurance companies do whatever they want, or who monitors insurance companies?

 

Steve Weber  30:57

Well, every state has a state commissioner, every policy, the product has to go through the approval process. A term policy is guaranteed for that term, never to change the cost. And I think that’s what we all look for. But you want to not have to get to the end, you want to review these, these are a financial instrument just like anything else. If you’re reviewing your investments, and you’re reviewing your mortgage, I think insurance is another financial tool that needs to be looked at more periodically than people do. Okay,

 

Gary Weiss  31:33

so let’s circle back because we’re almost that that time, but let’s circle back to your 30 years of entertainment experience. So how are you merging those two, the insurance in your experience and your contacts in the entertainment business?

 

Steve Weber  31:46

Yeah, so part of the reason why I was able to make the transition is because of my relationships with entertainment professionals, and the business managers and the CPAs that manage these celebrities and people behind the camera, people that work in front of the camera, and some of the companies. So we try and that’s how we first started out was specializing with entertainment professionals. And as time went on, because they’re professionals have estate tax needs, we’ve moved into just the everyday common person that’s made quite a bit of money that needs help. Great.

 

Gary Weiss  32:26

All right, so we’re getting towards that time. So tell us tell the listeners, how do they get ahold of you? And what do they do? How do they get ahold of you?

 

Steve Weber  32:34

Sure. I mean, I’m happy to talk to anybody and review there’s no cost for it. Steve Weber at HW premier insurance, you can email me it’s my contact informations there, my cell phones out there. I’m happy to take a phone call anytime and see if we can help you out.

 

Gary Weiss  32:52

What’s your phone number?

 

Steve Weber  32:57

818-222-2300 for the office. That’s pretty easy. Yeah,

 

Gary Weiss  33:01

All right, great. Well, then intrepid listeners, this is all the time we have for today. I would like to thank my guest, Steve Weber. Please look for look forward to future podcast when we do this incredibly interesting stuff. And I know you’re all sitting on the edge of your seats. So look forward to those right here. same bat time, same bat channel. I guarantee you will be entertained and enlightened at the same time. I’m your host Gary Weis. I look forward to spending time with you on our next podcast. Y’all come back now you’re here

 

Announcer  33:44

Presented by the Echelon Radio Network and Echelon Business Development. More than just networking. Way more!