Announcer 0:00
From Los Angeles, this is the Echelon Radio Network.

Brian Hemsworth 0:04
Hi, and welcome back to another edition of the Echelon Radio Podcast. I’m Brian Hemsworth. And today I have in our studio, Attorney extraordinaire, Adam Grant. Adam, thanks for coming in today. Appreciate it.

Adam Grant 0:24
Wonderful to be here. Thank you.

Brian Hemsworth 0:25
So Adam, I wanted to start, a lot of us in the business community. We know you, we we’ve been aware of your work. We know you from networking. And we know about some of your other activities outside of the legal world. But what I haven’t necessarily heard and I thought a great place for us to start is the beginning. Where are you from? Where’d you grow up?

Adam Grant 0:48
So I was born in Phoenix, Arizona in March of 1964. Grew up there and went to elementary school, middle school, beginning of high school, and then moved to San Diego and then up to LA but Phoenix, Arizona. That’s my roots.

Brian Hemsworth 1:07
Phoenix. So when you went to San Diego about when was that?

Adam Grant 1:10
That would be in June 1980.

Brian Hemsworth 1:13
So 80 you would have been high school?

Adam Grant 1:15
Yeah, about 16 at the time.

Brian Hemsworth 1:17
And whereabouts in San Diego.

Adam Grant 1:19
It was really difficult. My parents decided that La Jolla needs to be the place to move to. So yeah, it was extremely rough moving. We lived on top of Mount Soledad in La Jolla and about three miles from the beach. So I spent as much time as possible when I wasn’t in school, riding my bike down the mountain and going to either Pacific Beach, or all the way into La Jolla and then riding back up.

Brian Hemsworth 1:48
Oh, wow. Wow. So you were actually doing a lot of that activity early on in your life.

Adam Grant 1:53
Yeah, very, very early on. So and when I first started to do that, moving to San Diego, it was on a beach cruiser. So no gear,

Brian Hemsworth 2:03
no gears and a heavy bike

Adam Grant 2:05
and going uphill for miles. So it was a lot of fun.

Brian Hemsworth 2:08
So it was a training bike.

Adam Grant 2:09
Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Brian Hemsworth 2:11
Yeah. And you said 1980?

Adam Grant 2:12
Yeah. It was then. Yeah.

Brian Hemsworth 2:14
So ironically, we were in San Diego at the same time. I was at San Diego State.

Adam Grant 2:18
Go Aztecs

Brian Hemsworth 2:19
In the 80s. Yeah. But everybody says was that the one that’s you know, outside La Jolla and I go no, that’s that’s the other one. If San Diego State was out in La Jolla we would have never graduated. It’s the smart ones that go to the one in in La Jolla on that. So So then when you came up, came up to LA approximately, when was that?

Adam Grant 2:38
Well, I graduated from that school in La Jolla. UC San Diego. I was a Triton.

Brian Hemsworth 2:44
So you he’s one of the smart guys.

Adam Grant 2:46
So I graduated from UC San Diego in 1986. And then moved up to North Hollywood, actually, and as I’m fond of saying, moved in with my then girlfriend now wife.

Brian Hemsworth 3:00
Very good. And was that for law school that you came up?

Adam Grant 3:04
Yeah, it was well no no. And if truth be told it was for Joyce. Ah, so but yes, I was going to go

Brian Hemsworth 3:11
for a more important reason,

Adam Grant 3:12
way more important way more important. So I was we’re definitely going to be moving in together because we had been dating since I was 17. Wow. And I got a job actually. Because we were moving up. I was moving up there. I got a job in Los Angeles, working in a law firm, just really as a file clerk. But it was a family friend who connected me and the idea was actually took a year off between graduating from UC San Diego and starting at Southwestern University Law School. But while it freaked my dad out thinking, oh, you know, yeah, Adams never gonna go back to school last year. Yeah, of course, that was not the case. It was more. Okay. Now I’m going to be in a law firm, really seeing what’s going on. And at the same time, studying for the LSAT, and then getting ready in dealing with law school.

Brian Hemsworth 4:05
I actually think from now having had friends and foreign exchange students from Europe coming in living here. And it’s very common for them. It’s not as common for us. And I think it’s one of the smartest things that you can do somewhere along that way. Take a little bit of that gap year spend a little bit of time figuring out or even just stepping away from school for a little bit. I think it makes that postgraduate experience a little bit better.

Adam Grant 4:30
You know, it was really, in hindsight, of course, I agree with that entirely. It was a really good mental and emotional break even more so I reflect on it. And I thought, Wow, good idea, Adam. Because moving up to LA so completely relocating, moving in with a girlfriend of four years and kind of getting adjusted to Well, we’ve been to, you know, dating long distance for four years. You’re living with somebody That’s a whole other ball of wax. It actually became very easy, which was part of the reason why we ended up getting married. It was just quite natural. So it was a good time she was going through her student teaching. And then we were, you know, I started law school. So

Brian Hemsworth 5:19
So let’s talk a little bit about that legal journey.

Adam Grant 5:22
Sure.

Brian Hemsworth 5:23
Did you, Did you have a particular area? Did did law run in the family at all? Did you have experience with that when you started? Or was it all new?

Adam Grant 5:31
It was not all new. My father was an attorney. He was a started practicing with your quintessential Philadelphia lawyer. Moved out to Phoenix in the 50s. And was a solo practitioner, he literally as they say, pretty much did anything that came in the door. As far as work. civil litigation. DUIs, light criminal defense and family law issues. However, he he truly did almost everything to try and dissuade me

Brian Hemsworth 6:07
Oh really?

Adam Grant 6:08
Oh my gosh, he would say frequently, you never want to get into law, his phrase and I affectionately say there, Jimmy-isms because my dad’s name was James. So one of his Jimmy-isms was, you know, laws, the practice of law is essentially hocking limb law ladies over the head for, for money and thinking, really, Dad, what now in hindsight, with my own firm, while he didn’t actually mean that what he didn’t like, was the business of law. Okay, well, it’s not just only, you know, law firms, but any business when you have receivables, it is what I was gonna say collections are just not fun no matter what, no matter what. But, of course, despite him trying to dissuade me, I went on a row. And he was incredibly proud of me. I will say, though, from very early on, it was pretty destined for me, I was the only person in my third grade, who came and actually presented current events through the Wall Street Journal, Mrs. Brooks to this day, and a number of years ago, when I met her up, she she reminded me of that she’s like, I never had an all my teaching career, a third grader, present current events through the Wall Street Journal, but it was natural for me, because my father, literally read in Wall Street Journal, LA Times in the Arizona Republic, every Sunday. That’s what I had at the Sunday, you know, breakfast, right there. Now, interestingly enough, at least at that point, Wall Street Journal actually had little snippets of news articles, right. In the beginning, you had the deep ones that were on the far right, that went in multiple pages. Yeah, but they also had kind of, you know, then sound bites. And for me, it became great. They’re a couple of paragraphs long, it gives me a little taste of what’s going on in something or other. And I found it really intriguing. That’s what I use for current events. You know, I’ve

Brian Hemsworth 8:03
I have a little secret when we help clients with, with, for example, writing blog posts, one of the things that you can do is you can say, here’s an interesting piece from the Wall Street Journal, and everybody thinks you’re the most well read person. And you don’t have to do anything other than say, here’s a great article, and then link to it. And it makes you sound like you’re really smart. Even if you haven’t spent a whole lot of time with the Wall Street Journal. I haven’t subscribed for a while, but I still linked to him through the website. I learned that in third grade. So so when you got you got into law school, and you’ve got some law that runs in the family, a little bit of law floating through the, through the, the veins, but did you know what you wanted to do? Did you have an idea of what practice area? Or did you just kind of soak it all in?

Adam Grant 8:49
I had an inkling that my DNA really pointed me towards litigating. I can tell you that from quick reading, quick digesting the gift of gab came relatively young. I spent summers, one particular summer working on the hill, in Washington, DC. I remember coming back as a teenager, and one of my uncle’s literally watched me, as he said, work the room like a seasoned politician at the ripe young age of 18 years old. And he marveled afterwards and said, don’t think I’ve seen an 18 year old do that. I really enjoy public speaking. I really enjoy the challenge of having to think quickly on my feet. And very early on that just kind of instilled litigation. And then when I got into law school, I was a moot court finalist, best brief nominee. It seemed to be pretty destined as I knew it was pretty much where I was going to end up when competing in moot court in the first which is fake oral advocacy in front of a court of appeals, which are professors, sometimes judges, sometimes attorneys. The first round, and it’s just by lottery, I ended up having to go up against the head of, I mean, the number one person in our school as far as grades goes, yeah, so this is like, okay, great. Well, he did really well, as far as exams. And he lost.

Brian Hemsworth 10:30
Oh, my.

Adam Grant 10:31
So yeah, the, the editor of law review was my opponent. First up, and he didn’t win. So from that, I said, Okay, clearly, there must be something here. I’ve managed, I may not have the grades he does. But I can argue circles around him.

Brian Hemsworth 10:49
Yeah, i was gonna say at a certain point, when you go to court, they’re not going to look at your grades.

Adam Grant 10:53
Right.

Brian Hemsworth 10:53
They’re gonna want to experience what you can do in court. So it sounds to me like some of that early upbringing, and some of your that gift of gab that you mentioned, and your ability to process that information, long before law school that really pay dividends. And if we now jump out of law school and look at you today, are you still able to apply all of that that you learned before law school, all of that ability to talk people and convince people of things.

Adam Grant 11:23
I will say that I have certainly gained the reputation of being a trial attorney. And it’s a whole different breed. Many times, if you’re not an attorney, you don’t understand the distinction. There are attorneys who literally don’t even file, they are litigators, but they don’t even file complaints. They just try and settle. There are those who then will actually start litigating. And those, you know, they will just try and settle quickly, or they just won’t get into the thick of it. And then when they if they get anywhere close to trial, they’re giving it to somebody else. And then there’s our attorneys who essentially, I would live in the courtroom. I would absolutely love to just do back to back trial.

Brian Hemsworth 12:08
Wow.

Adam Grant 12:09
And that’s my firm knows that, my partners know that. Any chance I get, regardless of the stakes, put me in trial.

Brian Hemsworth 12:17
So so if you if you were to just estimate right now, when when we those who aren’t in the legal profession, most of us assume all attorneys spend time in court. And then over time, we learned that many, many, many don’t. What percentage would you say are like you that that sort of get bitten by the litigation bug, and then really enjoy that.

Adam Grant 12:38
Really enjoying being in trial?

Brian Hemsworth 12:40
Yeah.

Adam Grant 12:41
5%

Brian Hemsworth 12:42
5%

Adam Grant 12:43
It’s stressful. Yeah, it’s, you’ve got your client right there. You. You have the judge, you have all the jurors, everybody’s looking at you when you’re doing things you are absolutely performing. And you’re doing it with some pretty high stakes. And you’re doing it day after day after day. I mean, the longest jury trial I’ve had is three and a half months.

Brian Hemsworth 13:06
Wow.

Adam Grant 13:07
Monday through Friday 830 till 430. Several 100 exhibits and think we ended up with about 30 witnesses.

Brian Hemsworth 13:15
Wow.

Adam Grant 13:16
And it was an absolute charge. Now I slept for a few days after we took the verdict. But but you know, it was it was pretty incredible.

Brian Hemsworth 13:23
So let’s let’s go forward. Now I know. You’ve gone through some changes in some time, I can’t remember exactly when you can guide me in on this. It’s maybe just before COVID or during COVID. You have a firm change. Can you tell us about the firm? And what’s going on at the firm right now? And what are you doing at the firm?

Adam Grant 13:42
So, I started with Alpert, Barr, & Grant, when in 2007, literally, after Lee Alpert had retired, and Gary BArr was in the process of we knew that, you know, a merger was likely so that we can continue on with the transactional practice. And it was in 2021, still pretty much in the thick of the pandemic when we merged. And Shenon Law came into our practice. And then most recently, of course, with Gary retiring, Natela, and I changed the firm. So it’s now Grant | Shenon, and it’s been an incredible ride. So far. The firm has grown. We just hired another transactional attorney. We’re looking at hiring a 17th attorney and offers out. We’re hoping probably by the beginning of this year, to nail that down. And it’s expanded into areas as far as how we market ourselves. We had never we had never done before. And right now, for me, I still I head up the litigation practice and, you know, complex business litigation, a lot of real estate and construction matters.

Brian Hemsworth 15:00
So you there was a physical move. Right. But it wasn’t really that far. It was kind of

Adam Grant 15:06
Right. We moved from an office that the firm had been at, since the early 80s in Encino, and we moved to Sherman Oaks on Ventura Boulevard.

Brian Hemsworth 15:18
Gotcha.

Adam Grant 15:18
So, so not really too far.

Brian Hemsworth 15:20
What about the firm itself, the culture of the firm practice areas did that change much?

Adam Grant 15:27
There was some reduction in practice areas, because Gary had a certain specialties with mobile home law and certain transactional areas that he has done. Natela brings a wealth of transactional experience to the firm, she has some reg D, offering, private placement memorandum type experience. Um, she worked at a company beforehand, where she pretty much took it public. So her depth of transactional experience around those types of mergers and acquisitions and public offerings is pretty significant. The firm also, under my supervision does data privacy as well.

Brian Hemsworth 16:14
And I assume that is probably still a pretty high growth area for the firm.

Adam Grant 16:20
It’s an incredible area of growth, primarily because the law is simply not anywhere near where their technology is. So what happens is technology changes on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, the law lags behind, which means there’s all kinds of updates, there’s all kinds of bills pending, and since we’re in California, and we are really the state that leads the legal landscape as far as data privacy in the United States, it’s cutting edge. So it’s forever updating my clients. It’s forever updating agreements that relate to data privacy. And of course, if there’s a data breach, making sure that the most up to date laws are used in responding to.

Brian Hemsworth 17:06
So for, I don’t know, maybe the past five to 10 years, we’ve heard that Europe is really ahead of the US in terms of data privacy and their the laws that they have, is that still the case? Or has the US kind of caught up? I I do know that people now do refer to California is kind of leading that charge in the US.

Adam Grant 17:28
So that’s a matter of perspective. Okay. Okay. You know Europe passed the General Data Privacy Protection Act, and one would say that is actually not advanced, but more draconian. Yeah, and the way data privacy is essentially handled in the United States is very different than it’s handled in Europe, because in Europe, it’s basically the EU putting out for the most part, it’s the EU putting out this law, it’s more done on a country wide basis, even within so whether it’s Germany, or what have you, by country, the United States doesn’t do it really by country only. There’s some federal laws, of course that apply to it. But unlike Europe, each individual state then has their own set of privacy laws. So you, if you’re in Europe, and you’re in Poland, or Germany, or you know, what have you, you comply with one set of laws period.

Brian Hemsworth 18:36
So here, you’ve got an EU blanket,

Adam Grant 18:38
right, right,

Brian Hemsworth 18:39
as we have you have a bit of layers of a federal layer, and then state layers and probably more in the way of state Yes, yeah,

Adam Grant 18:44
Yes, yeah, more in the way of state now. Because a lot of clients come to me and say, Well, I’m actually selling product or I have clients all over the country, how can I possibly possibly comply with all the various little idiosyncrasy idiosyncrasies of each individual states? And that’s a valid, you know, you’re not a huge fortune 500 company that can really drill down and all of those and make sure it works, and most businesses are not that so the best advice I can give clients is comply with California.

Brian Hemsworth 19:15
Okay, that’s a great starting point.

Adam Grant 19:17
Yeah, because while there may be a, you know, various nuances in different states, they all frequently will take off of California. So if you’re complying with California, you have at least substantially complied with virtually everything else. Gotcha. So,

Brian Hemsworth 19:32
Gotcha. So, just staying on the firm now for another moment, I want to toss you toss you a very soft pitch. And that is, we call you when when what are the things that should trigger us to think about coming to you with legal issues.

Adam Grant 19:49
You need to call me well in advance of any type of dispute. Anything, if you are doing anything with your business if you’re acquiring a piece of property, if you are Even if you’re an individual and you want somebody to review over an insurance policy, literally, the first person you need to call is your attorney. The reason being is if you wait until there’s problems, then you’ve probably created a bigger problem than you really need.

Brian Hemsworth 20:18
So so if we are doing some kind of transactional work, and and we specifically hear or think of dispute, that’s a trigger. But even before that, if we’re looking at things that could possibly, that’s a trigger for us to call early.

Adam Grant 20:34
Call early. And while I primarily do litigation, of course, the firm does the transactional work. And when you have a firm that can approach a client in a holistic manner in such that it’s not just litigation, in what variation on the theme that can be depending upon the topic, but can also address the transactional needs, you’re able to mesh those minds together, and be able to really anticipate problems because within the deal documents, they come to me, and I know, okay, that indemnity agreement isn’t going to work in this, this particular venue clause is not really working, this arbitration clause is outdated, and actually has these problems because of this particular case. And statutes have just recently been changed on this particular phrase, in this choice of law provision, so you need to update it. Those are the types of things if you have a firm such as ours, we can identify those things and with the depth of experience, identify them quickly, efficiently.

Brian Hemsworth 21:34
So you’re really bringing in expertise on that transactional side. And also, you’ve got a lot of experience on the litigation side. So that’s the blend that’s really protecting your clients or hopefully keeping them away from a lot of the problems that might otherwise flare up.

Adam Grant 21:49
Right. The ability to be a hybrid is really critical.

Brian Hemsworth 21:53
Gotcha. Gotcha. All right. So I want to have just a little bit of fun with this as well. We’ve been talking some business, but you have a particular well, you began mentioning this with San Diego, you run, you swim, you ride bikes, and you do it a lot. And you compete. Did that start with San Diego? Or is that something that you know, once you got back, or came up to LA that, that you really started in on that?

Adam Grant 22:20
No, again, I tend to be pretty consistent in my life and goal oriented. It actually started from when I was before I was one year old. Yeah, take a deep breath on that statement.

Brian Hemsworth 22:35
I’m trying to process

Adam Grant 22:36
Okay, so my mom was a lifeguard.

Brian Hemsworth 22:39
Oh, okay.

Adam Grant 22:40
She’s a lifeguard at the local Jewish Community Center. And we had a pool in our backyard. So I literally learned how to swim and walk at the same time.

Brian Hemsworth 22:50
Oh, my goodness.

Adam Grant 22:50
So by the time I was 1314 15 months old, I was water safe and walking like crazy. By the time I was five, I had, I knew every stroke, and was swimming competitively. I swam competitively throughout high school. And I learned really quickly for some strange reason I can run even as a third or fourth grader faster and longer than most eighth graders could. So when I got into high school, it was four years of varsity track. A couple of years of wrestling couple years of football in college and ended up being rowing crew, and then living in San Diego. I didn’t own a car during college so I ended up riding my bike, a road bike finally I graduated into that, from the top of Mount Soledad to UC San Diego. And then my study partners lived in Del Mar, I’d ride down Torrey Pines up Torrey Pines into del Mar, and then I ride home. And so that ended up being a solid 30 to 40 miles, sometimes 50 miles or so. Every couple of days to deal with. And after law school, kept running and then finally putting it all together. A friend of mine said, you know, you swim like a damn fish. I’ve seen your run and jog you know, really do well in marathons. Can you bike? I said of course I can. That’s all she wrote. It’s been about 35 years I’ve been doing triathlons.

Brian Hemsworth 24:12
Wow. So I spent a little time in San Diego myself. A lot of people think of San Diego as being you know, by the beach and they don’t realize what kind of hills we do have there. And and it actually is great for training. I did an interview with Pete Penseyres series if you remember him Race Across America Winner.

RAM.

Yeah. And he and he basically trained most of the year just in San Diego proper. He worked at San Onofre. I always thought he had a little bit of nuclear there but he would get special permission to ride through Pendleton so he could ride into San Diego back to San Diego. And he do that at lunch. And then when it was getting close to two months before the RAM event, he would start in San Diego and Friday night after work. He would ride to Arizona and back And that was and he get back some time on Sunday. And that literal and he would just go, he’d go with, you know, money in a credit card in a pocket. And he’d stopped somewhere and sleep for a few hours and he’d stop at a 7-11 or grab something along the way. With, with those events, the triathlons give me one or two of the most memorable, what have been your favorites that you’ve done because I know you’ve done a lot.

Adam Grant 25:24
Hands down. So it actually was an UltraMan. So most people are familiar with the term Ironman. Most people know Oh, in Hawaii, there’s an Ironman Well, Ironman is actually a distance, two and a half mile swim, 112 mile bike, and then a marathon 26.2 miles. So after I’ve done a number of those, I stepped up to doing Ultra man, which is actually a three day event. First day is a 6.2 mile swim, and then a 90 mile bike. The second day is 171 miles of cycling. And then the third day is a double marathon 52.4 miles. So after doing 12 Iron Man’s, I then stepped up to do an ultra man in Florida, in 2017. And I then decided I wanted to go that qualified me to apply to the UltraMan World Championships in Kona, Hawaii, so I was accepted. And in 2018, I raced. In 2018, this was in November, during the that year is when the Big Island of Hawaii actually had quite a lot of volcanic activity. The southern portion of the island got significantly covered with lava and a portion of the race, therefore could not happen in the southern portion. So we had to go up in over the middle part. Oh, so what is normally 171 miles of cycling, with about 8000 feet of climbing, turned into 171 miles of cycling in almost 15,000 feet of climbing. So the most memorable part of precursor was that second day was a tough swim the first day. And coming into the second day was like Okay, hope I hope my legs are here. And I managed to get to the top of the volcano. And then I almost passed out. I really, I couldn’t clip in. I had to have somebody push my feet in the clip in. And but I managed to get to the top. I realized at that point that it was not safe for me to descend the 20 some odd miles with cross winds of 40 miles an hour and I had to pull the plug. So I did not finish that day. I was crying. I was trying to emotionally kind of grapple with this. And yet I came through and this next day, I still ran the double marathon. Oh wow. And then the next year I went and I finished the entire thing.

Brian Hemsworth 25:34
Oh, my God

Adam Grant 25:24
in record time for me.

Brian Hemsworth 25:50
In 2019?

Adam Grant 27:38
In 2019 was finishing and my whole family was there. And there’s a photo of me crossing the finish line in 2019 with all three daughters with my wife there. And that pretty much in my mind was the pinnacle. I completed the UltraMan world championships with my family right next to me.

Brian Hemsworth 28:33
And compared to say the first time you competed in an Ironman. Did that still beat that experience?

Adam Grant 28:41
Hands down.

Brian Hemsworth 28:41
Oh wow.

Adam Grant 28:42
Yeah, hands down. First one was IronMan Arizona. And I finished in about 12 hours and 14 minutes with my oldest daughter crossing the finish line. That was cool. But the UltraMan World Championships

Brian Hemsworth 28:55
Yeah.

Adam Grant 28:56
With my entire family there. That was it.

Brian Hemsworth 28:59
Oh goodness, how long do you think you’re going to keep doing this?

Adam Grant 29:02
Funny you should ask. So I have nowhere near retiring. But I can tell you what I’m going to do when I retire. Okay, one I’m going back to school and two my wife and I are going to travel and there’s IronMans all over the world. So I can go and do an Ironman ship my bike back, and we could travel so as far as I’m concerned. Last time I heard that the oldest person who finished an Ironman was I think it was 84-85 I’m good.

Brian Hemsworth 29:30
Wow, what are you gonna go back to school for?

Adam Grant 29:33
Not math and not science. Okay, I just when I was in school, I loved learning. I loved learning, reading. I love history. I love politics. I was a poli sci major and a double minor with US history and political philosophy. So anything humanities, any social sciences, I mean in sociology, it was something I took. I really enjoyed Greek mythology. I really really enjoyed it. You know, anything to keep my mind active, but I love learning.

Brian Hemsworth 30:04
I do a fair amount of teaching. And I, somebody, psychologist friend that I know, had asked me why. And I said, Well, I just enjoyed I enjoy being in the classroom. And he informed me that a lot of people that teach, teach because we like learning that we’ve actually subconsciously we just gravitate to that, to those surroundings. And I now after about 17-18 years of mostly being an adjunct, have learned that, oh my gosh, it’s so true. It keeps you on your game. And now with the internet, you have students that are fact checking you in real time in the classroom, which 17 years ago, they weren’t, I could get away with, you know, lecturing on, you know, just the, on whatever was coming up in my mind. And now I’ve got to be on my game. And I know it sounds really corny, but I learned an awful lot from those students. Everything that I’ve learned in terms of social media, content marketing, has really come from my students. And I love that ability to just keep learning. I think it’s a little bit easier for us now. I think we live in a world where we’re allowed to keep learning and it almost feels like a generation ago, you kind of stopped and then you moved into a different thing. And lifelong learning is much more of a thing right now. So for you it will be lifelong learning, lifelong running, life long riding is life long. So I’m going to circle back to just one because I gotta ask I’m, I’m a I’m a biker. You mentioned that first road bike. Do you remember what that road bike?

Adam Grant 31:34
Well, yes it was a Fuji was a Fuji. It was bronze and color and I had toe cages. And probably Shimano 105s on it. And, and the shifters were was on on a stamp. Yeah, on the down tube

Brian Hemsworth 31:50
Yeah, mine was Shimano 600s. Yeah, one step before the hams. It was a Bian key. And believe it or not, I still have that by my garage. It’s got a lot of rust on it. And I haven’t written it in 20 years, but I still have that among others. Well, listen, Adam, I really appreciate your coming in thanks for sharing some of your background and what’s going on with the firm and some of these fun experiences. I we just barely scratched the surface. So at some point later on, I’d love to have you come back in and maybe help educate us so we can keep learning a little bit about not only some of the stuff you’re doing outside I want to hear about the adventures and the and the, the competitions you do in the learning but also you are able to bring us a lot of very important stuff about law. So thank you very much appreciate your coming in for that.

Adam Grant 32:38
Thank you.

Announcer 32:48
Presented by Echelon Business Development. More than just networking. Way more.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai